Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Of the the three false teachings of the atonement, Liberalism's version is the most dangerous.
As was stated in a different OP, Liberalism theology was summed up in this way by a theologian when in part he wrote :
Liberalism has no doctrine for a real atonement. Its understanding of the atonement, simply stated, is this:
There is no enmity or wrath on God's part for the sinner. God's love is supreme.
All that is necessary is that the sinner come back to God and be forgiven.
Whether Jesus was God or not doesn't matter; whether he performed miracles or not doesn't matter.
The only significance of Jesus' dying on the cross was an attempt on God's part to
remove man's misconception about God; to teach him that God is not a stern
judge, but a loving Father.
The only significance of Jesus' dying on the cross was an attempt on God's part to
remove man's misconception about God; to teach him that God is not a stern
judge, but a loving Father.
The key point of "atonement" is reconciliation, not sacrifice. If we use "reparation," then it is sinful men that need to make up for their failings, not God, and therefore any sacrifice should be made by those men.
As has been stated, the growing awareness in the Hebrew faith was that it was not blood sacrifices that were important to God, but a heart turned toward Him. One might say that we "sacrifice" our old lives (crucified with Jesus). The significance of the crucifixion is that it demonstrated the failure of Law as the basis for judgement of men and showed how powerful the "better way" is even in defeating death. It is not "no atonement" that is being taught it is "no shell game atonement where God is the judge and the one who pays His own price."
Of the the three false teachings of the atonement, Liberalism's version is the most dangerous.
As was stated in a different OP, Liberalism theology was summed up in this way by a theologian when in part he wrote :
Liberalism has no doctrine for a real atonement. Its understanding of the atonement, simply stated, is this:
There is no enmity or wrath on God's part for the sinner. God's love is supreme.
All that is necessary is that the sinner come back to God and be forgiven.
Whether Jesus was God or not doesn't matter; whether he performed miracles or not doesn't matter.
The only significance of Jesus' dying on the cross was an attempt on God's part to
remove man's misconception about God; to teach him that God is not a stern
judge, but a loving Father.
Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”The other guests( those blinded by their doctrines and traditions) began to say among themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”
Hang on Jesus hadn't gone to Calvary yet, what does he mean, your faith has saved you ?
The key point of "atonement" is reconciliation, not sacrifice.
Without the sacrifice there is no reconciliation.
Hebrews 7:26-27
Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from
sinners, exalted above the heavens. Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer
sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.
Hebrews 9:24, 26
For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true
one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. .... But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Ephesians 5:2 Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”The other guests( those blinded by their doctrines and traditions) began to say among themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”
Hang on Jesus hadn't gone to Calvary yet, what does he mean, your faith has saved you ?
John 1:29
“Look, theLambofGod, who takes away the sin of the world! "
There was a reason why John called Jesus "the lamb of God" since God previously required a perfect sacrifice of people for the substitute payment of sin. Now instead of people providing the perfect atonement, God himself provides the atonement required as the substitute payment of sin.
So just as always has been, God has deemed that it is by faith in what God provides as the atoning sacrifice is the substitute for sin. The OT atonement sacrifice subsitute was to point to the NT atonement sacrifice subsitute ... Jesus
To be blunt, if you (to whomever it applies) do not believe that Christ bore your sins in His body on the Cross, and that the Father judged those sins, then you have not believed on Christ and you remain under condemnation and are headed to hell; to the lake of fire. The righteousness of God demanded that the penalty of sin be paid. Only Jesus could pay that penalty. The only way you can be eternally saved is to accept the redemption solution which is the sacrificial work of Christ on the cross.
Revelation 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.
Jesus purchased or redeemed us from the slave market of sin with His blood which refers to His spiritual death. The penalty for sin was paid during the last three hours that Christ was on the Cross. And when the last sin had been paid for, Jesus said, 'Tetelestai' - 'It is finished'. It's in the Perfect tense. Action completed with results continuing on. It has been accomplished. The word tetelestai was also written on business documents or receipts in New Testament times to indicate that a bill had been paid in full. The debt of our sins was paid in full by Jesus while He was still physically alive.
If you deny that you are a sinner and in need of salvation, and that Jesus paid the price for your sins, then you are dead even though you are physically alive. For while the penalty of sin has been paid for everyone, believer and unbeliever alike, no one receives the imputation of God's perfect righteousness until he personally places his faith in Jesus Christ. And that means recognizing and accepting His work on the Cross on your behalf.
John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
But you say, 'Well that's the way you interpret it, but I interpret it differently.' Then you interpret it wrong. And you are wrong. And if you refuse to listen then you are wrongheaded and headed to an eternal future which I promise you that you will not enjoy. So you people (to whomever this applies) had better listen and let what I've said, and more importantly, what the Word of God says, sink into your head.
Last edited by Michael Way; 05-23-2013 at 02:45 PM..
To be blunt, if you (to whomever it applies) do not believe that Christ bore your sins in His body on the Cross, and that the Father judged those sins, then you have not believed on Christ and you remain under condemnation and are headed to hell; to the lake of fire. The righteousness of God demanded that the penalty of sin be paid. Only Jesus could pay that penalty. The only way you can be eternally saved is to accept the redemption solution which is the sacrificial work of Christ on the cross.
Revelation 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.
Jesus purchased or redeemed us from the slave market of sin with His blood which refers to His spiritual death. The penalty for sin was paid during the last three hours that Christ was on the Cross. And when the last sin had been paid for, Jesus said, 'Tetelestai' - 'It is finished'. It's in the Perfect tense. Action completed with results continuing on. It has been accomplished. The word tetelestai was also written on business documents or receipts in New Testament times to indicate that a bill had been paid in full. The debt of our sins was paid in full by Jesus while He was still physically alive.
If you deny that you are a sinner and in need of salvation, and that Jesus paid the price for your sins, then you are dead even though you are physically alive. For while the penalty of sin has been paid for everyone, believer and unbeliever alike, no one receives the imputation of God's perfect righteousness until he personally places his faith in Jesus Christ. And that means recognizing and accepting His work on the Cross on your behalf.
John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
But you say, 'Well that's the way you interpret it, but I interpret it differently.' Then you interpret it wrong. And you are wrong. And if you refuse to listen then you are wrongheaded and headed to an eternal future which I promise you that you will not enjoy. So you people (to whomever this applies) had better listen and let what I've said, and more importantly, what the Word of God says, sink into your head.
Okay, aside from all the holes in this theory:
("The wages of sin is death", not eternal torment as you claim.
The penalty for every single person was paid in 3 hours but the individual will have to pay it for eternity?
The penalty for ALL sin was paid once for all to God's complete satisfaction. But not really, because the sin of not believing it wasn't covered by that perfect blood sacrifice?)
Please, explain to me how any of what you're saying conquers sin and death when sin and death will still be existing for eternity for the majority of humanity?
And, too, HOW do you "pay" for sin exactly? Does someone else being punished for sin change the consequences that sin has caused to others or to oneself? How does it do that, Mike? And if it doesn't, how can you say that sin has really been dealt with?
("The wages of sin is death", not eternal torment as you claim.
The penalty for every single person was paid in 3 hours but the individual will have to pay it for eternity?
The penalty for ALL sin was paid once for all to God's complete satisfaction. But not really, because the sin of not believing it wasn't covered by that perfect blood sacrifice?)
Please, explain to me how any of what you're saying conquers sin and death when sin and death will still be existing for eternity for the majority of humanity?
And, too, HOW do you "pay" for sin exactly? Does someone else being punished for sin change the consequences that sin has caused to others or to oneself? How does it do that, Mike? And if it doesn't, how can you say that sin has really been dealt with?
It is no theory. It is the revealed Word of God. Understand this. The penalty for sin is spiritual death. Spiritual death means separation from God. It means no relationship with God. We are all born physically alive but spiritually dead. We are born outside of any relationship with God. The only way a relationship with God can be entered into is through Jesus Christ. When a person dies physically without coming to Christ for salvation, spiritual death continues forever. First in 'torments' in Hades, and then after the Millennium, and having been judged at the great white throne, in the lake of fire forever. This is the second death.
Because Jesus already paid the penalty for sin, the unbeliever does not go to hell because of his sins. He goes to hell because of the fact that since he didn't place his faith in Christ, he was never imputed or credited with God's own perfect righteousness. To have an eternal relationship with God one must have a righteousness which is as perfect as God's righteousness. And the only way to have a righteousness which is acceptable to God is for God to credit you with His own perfect righteousness. And God only imputes His righteousness to those who believe on Christ as the Scriptures plainly say.
Because the unbeliever dies with only his imperfect relative righteousness, and also because he has never been regenerated, he can never have an eternal relationship with God and will remain in a state of separation from God forever. Isaiah 64:6 says that our righteous deeds are as filthy rags to God. There is no amount of suffering in hell which can transform the unbeliever's righteousness into a righteousness acceptable to God.
Because Jesus was born without sin and never sinned personally, He was qualified to go to the Cross and bear the sins of the world. And because Jesus is also God, His spiritual death as a man had infinite value. Therefore He was able to pay for all the sins in human history in that period of time from 12 noon to 3 PM, the last three hours in which He was on the Cross.
Although the unbeliever is said to die in his sins (John 8:24), he cannot be judged for those sins because they were already delt with on the Cross. The work of Christ on the Cross makes salvation a reality for those who come to Him for salvation. But those who refuse to come to Christ will be forever separated from Him in the lake of fire wherever that is located.
Jesus purchased our freedom from the slavemarket of sin. He opened the door, the shackles of sin have been broken. We are free. But even though Jesus opened the door, you can still refuse to go through the door and sit in the slave market forever if you so choose. To walk through the door requires an act of non-meritorious volition on your part in response to the gospel message. That is why the Scriptures say, 'BELIEVE.' Salvation is free for the taking but it must be received through faith in Christ. And that means recognizing that He paid for your sins and that you are depending on Him and Him alone for your eternal salvation. Those who do not come to Christ by going through the door which He opened stay in the slave market of sin even though their freedom has been purchased.
Physical death will not exist in the eternal future because both believer and unbeliever will have been resurrected. But the second death which is the lake of fire is forever.
And again, the unbeliever does not pay for his sins. Jesus paid for our sins, believer and unbeliever alike as the Scriptures say. What He endured on the Cross may never be known. What Christ experienced when the Father had to forsake Him (that was His spiritual death) cannot be said.
Mark 15:34 At the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, "ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI?" which is translated, "MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?"
Last edited by Michael Way; 05-23-2013 at 05:53 PM..
John 1:29
“Look, theLambofGod, who takes away the sin of the world! "
There was a reason why John called Jesus "the lamb of God" since God previously required a perfect sacrifice of people for the substitute payment of sin. Now instead of people providing the perfect atonement, God himself provides the atonement required as the substitute payment of sin.
So just as always has been, God has deemed that it is by faith in what God provides as the atoning sacrifice is the substitute for sin. The OT atonement sacrifice subsitute was to point to the NT atonement sacrifice subsitute ... Jesus
Oh... Another ET thread comes tip-toeing through the tulips like a wolf, wearing sheep's clothing I see.
Just saying that because certain ones on here often cry out in pain when a thread "turns" UR
where it was not explicitly stated in the title.
What a waste of time writing about condemnation.
I've never heard the term "Liberalism theology" before reading this thread. Maybe it's a new age phrase? LOL
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
