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Old 05-30-2013, 05:33 PM
Status: "I'm turquoise happy!" (set 28 days ago)
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
23,883 posts, read 32,169,141 times
Reputation: 67783

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
I was speaking to someone else when I said that. I wasn't talking about your church. As I told you in a previous post, I hope you enjoy your time at this church and that you grow in your faith.

Having said that, you asked me what my church believes. Here is a small statement of our doctrine:
WE BELIEVE:

The supernatural and plenary inspiration of the Scriptures—that they are inerrant and that their teaching and authority are absolute, supreme, final, and complete;

The trinity of the Godhead—God, the Father; God, the Son; and God, the Holy Spirit;

The personality of God; the personality and deity of Jesus Christ, begotten of the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, very God and very man; and the personality of the Holy Spirit;

The resurrection of Jesus Christ—that His body was raised from the dead according to the Scriptures, and that He ascended into Heaven and sitteth on the right hand of God as the believer’s Advocate;

The sinfulness of man—that all human beings are born with a sinful nature, and are totally depraved and need a Savior from sin;

The Atonement—that Jesus Christ became the sinner’s sacrifice before God and died as the propitiation for the sins of the whole world;

The necessity of the new birth—salvation is by grace through faith and not of works; saving faith will maintain good works in the life of the believer,

The literal resurrection of the body, both of the just and of the unjust;

The everlasting blessedness of the saved, and the everlasting punishment of the lost;

The evangelization of the world—the supreme mission of the Church in this age is to preach the Gospel to every creature;

The second coming of Christ according to Scripture.

You have the advantage on me! Who are "we"?

So you believe in eternal security. You're from a Calvinist church. That's OK.

The rest of what you wrote seems pretty mainstream Protestant.

Nothing earth shrinkingly different from most churches that are Protestant.

Again, why are the old Hymns, which are not all that old, so important to salvation?

 
Old 05-30-2013, 05:59 PM
 
14 posts, read 11,406 times
Reputation: 17
Ugh. I know I said I was going to move on from this discussion, but somehow I gravitated back here and now find myself in the position of wanting to address another comment:


Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Not better . . . just able. I HAVE engaged in the scholarly effort I mentioned for over 40 years. I had no belief in any of the religions for over 30 years . . . until I encountered unmistakable proof (TO ME) of God's existence during deep meditation. I approached ALL the "spiritual fossil record" of our efforts to understand God with an open mind and no preferences and no preconceptions for any of them. I had the advantage of first hand "knowing" the nature of the consciousness I encountered. This made the search non-random. I was eventually drawn to the Jesus legend and story by the absolute match of His described attributes of unconditional love and acceptance with what I encountered. My exegesis of the texts was guided by the nature of the consciousness I encountered which made so much of what was spouted by the so-called Doctors of Divinity and such pure hogwash. My outside the scriptures eisegesis involved an eclectic knowledge of diverse areas of science to synthesize both the scriptural and scientific into a whole that satisfied my intellect. I claim no authority . . . just certainty FOR ME.
But see, that's just it....certainty for YOU. It's not certainty for others - yet you do indeed seem to indicate that your particular views are they only correct ones, and you do that by dismissing or deriding the views of others. May I ask - do you believe there is anything you can learn from others? If your answer to that question is affirmative, then what method do you employ to determine if what they are teaching is trustworthy and able to be accepted?

You're dismissing what Vizio and many other fundamentalist and/or traditional Christians profess to believe, and you're doing this based on a subjective experience you had that no one else can validate?? How do you even know that the experience you had was a valid spiritual experience originating with the one true God? Can you share the nature of your experience and describe, in detail, what happened during your "encounter"? Can you explain how you are so certain that what you believe is truth, and that you aren't deceived? What frame of reference do you have available by which you can judge if what you believe is indeed correct? Your own authority? Or does God speak to you directly?
 
Old 05-30-2013, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,374 posts, read 20,015,993 times
Reputation: 14068
Quote:
Originally Posted by little bro View Post
...snip... What frame of reference do you have available by which you can judge if what you believe is indeed correct? Your own authority? Or does God speak to you directly?
I understand this was addressed to another poster but I hope you don't mind my 2-cents-worth.

Some people possess cognitive abilities which include common sense. Perhaps that sense is god-given. I suspect it's earned via experience.

However achieved, when common sense is applied to fundamentalist "explanations" - there is a disconnect. It's difficult, nay impossible, to believe in something patently untrue.

And I'm afraid it will ever be thus.

Genesis (and much of the rest of the bible) is as true, and no truer, than Grimm's Fairy Tales, The Odyssey, Star Trek and Lord Of The Rings.

Actually, upon further consideration, I believe Star Trek and LOTR contain more that is true than does the bible.
 
Old 05-30-2013, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Northern Wisconsin
10,379 posts, read 10,845,187 times
Reputation: 18712
The statement of doctrine Sheena listed, which I could not find anywhere on their web site, so I don't know the source, but I'm willing to accept what she says. However, that is a statement of faith that you could drive a truckload of false doctrine through. It actually sounds much like a Mormon statement of faith. It could even be construed by Arians. This is why serious Christians have written more extensive creeds in order to make clear. EG: Nicene Creed. Its much more specific and was written specifically to exclude Arianism and Modalism. Lutherans also have long creed for this very purpose.

By the way, I didn't condemn these other churches. I just said that they don't teach what the Bible teaches, which has been demonstrated many times by many others. However the Bible does condemn those who teach differently.


Gal 1:9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
 
Old 05-30-2013, 07:44 PM
 
63,446 posts, read 39,695,513 times
Reputation: 7787
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Not better . . . just able. I HAVE engaged in the scholarly effort I mentioned for over 40 years. I had no belief in any of the religions for over 30 years . . . until I encountered unmistakable proof (TO ME) of God's existence during deep meditation. I approached ALL the "spiritual fossil record" of our efforts to understand God with an open mind and no preferences and no preconceptions for any of them. I had the advantage of first hand "knowing" the nature of the consciousness I encountered. This made the search non-random. I was eventually drawn to the Jesus legend and story by the absolute match of His described attributes of unconditional love and acceptance with what I encountered. My exegesis of the texts was guided by the nature of the consciousness I encountered which made so much of what was spouted by the so-called Doctors of Divinity and such pure hogwash. My outside the scriptures eisegesis involved an eclectic knowledge of diverse areas of science to synthesize both the scriptural and scientific into a whole that satisfied my intellect. I claim no authority . . . just certainty FOR ME.
Quote:
Originally Posted by little bro View Post
But see, that's just it....certainty for YOU. It's not certainty for others - yet you do indeed seem to indicate that your particular views are they only correct ones, and you do that by dismissing or deriding the views of others. May I ask - do you believe there is anything you can learn from others? If your answer to that question is affirmative, then what method do you employ to determine if what they are teaching is trustworthy and able to be accepted?
I dismiss and deride nothing. I question and express amazement at the willful retention of ancient ignorance as a sign of Faith in God . . . as if God would require such a thing. I am certain that it will not be well received by God.(Again the certainty applies only to me). Of course being CERTAIN . . . I think my views are more correct than those that disagree with mine. Yes, I have learned much from others over the years and continue to do so. The method I use is the "mind of Christ" as HE PRESENTED HIMSELF (NOT as the "precepts and doctrines of men" would present Him by merging Him with the OT beliefs and superstitions about Jehovah). I ask WWJT and sincerely query my heart with the guidance of the Comforter to ascertain if it is compatible with the true nature of God that Christ unambiguously revealed by His life, teachings and death . . . and in His Gospel of Love.
Quote:
You're dismissing what Vizio and many other fundamentalist and/or traditional Christians profess to believe, and you're doing this based on a subjective experience you had that no one else can validate?? How do you even know that the experience you had was a valid spiritual experience originating with the one true God? Can you share the nature of your experience and describe, in detail, what happened during your "encounter"? Can you explain how you are so certain that what you believe is truth, and that you aren't deceived? What frame of reference do you have available by which you can judge if what you believe is indeed correct? Your own authority? Or does God speak to you directly?
If you have not experienced the kind of "knowing" that accompanies deep meditative states . . . it is impossible to describe it adequately using words. Have you ever had a dream and "Known" something was part of the dream and true . . . but there was NOTHING in the dream itself about it or that would account for it? If you have . . . it is that kind of inexplicable "knowing." I have vetted the nature of the consciousness I encounter repeatedly and it is always the same . . . "unconditional love and acceptance" . . . much as I would expect the Comforter to do. He responds to my queries but never verbally or visually . . . just in that "knowing" manner.

Early on I was frustrated by the lack of verbal or visual communication and made my frustration obvious. Clearly I was biased by the notions of Omnipotence, etc. that seem to be the mandatory attributes of God according to us humans. But I eventually realized we had no reason to expect that to be true. That was when the notion of a "womb" came to me as the description of our current physical existence. We are in a "spiritual womb" and our Father has limited ways to communicate with us . . . much as earthly Fathers do with their unborn child. We are all "spiritual embryos" . . . "unborn" until we are reborn as Spirit upon our death.That is my view anyway. YMMV. I realize that few people want or will accept a limited God. They demand that God be Omnipotent, Omniscient, etc.etc.etc. I have no problem with that. It could just be that God chooses to communicate using the direct "knowing" instead of verbal or visual communication. C'est la vie.

Last edited by MysticPhD; 05-30-2013 at 07:59 PM..
 
Old 05-30-2013, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,826,320 times
Reputation: 1869
Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedogie View Post
The statement of doctrine Sheena listed, which I could not find anywhere on their web site, so I don't know the source, but I'm willing to accept what she says. However, that is a statement of faith that you could drive a truckload of false doctrine through. It actually sounds much like a Mormon statement of faith. It could even be construed by Arians. This is why serious Christians have written more extensive creeds in order to make clear. EG: Nicene Creed. Its much more specific and was written specifically to exclude Arianism and Modalism. Lutherans also have long creed for this very purpose.

By the way, I didn't condemn these other churches. I just said that they don't teach what the Bible teaches, which has been demonstrated many times by many others. However the Bible does condemn those who teach differently.


Gal 1:9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
So......you don't find those creeds in the Bible, right? They are the product of the perceptions and reason of other people. What if you drop those creeds and just go back to the Bible AND the Spirit?










No, you don't necessarily turn into a Quaker, though we have been doing just that for over 3 1/2 centuries. Somepeople say we aren't Christians then. Some have other perceptions.
 
Old 05-30-2013, 08:52 PM
Status: "I'm turquoise happy!" (set 28 days ago)
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
23,883 posts, read 32,169,141 times
Reputation: 67783
Quote:
Originally Posted by balunman View Post
I dont think this church is Baptist!
Not even close. You are correct here. Not Baptist or "Stealth Baptist", not a wanna be mega church, or an emergent church.

A church that is building consensus by abandoning extraneous spiritual, social and political beliefs.

"Nothing But the Blood".

Last edited by sheena12; 05-30-2013 at 09:02 PM..
 
Old 05-30-2013, 10:36 PM
 
3,448 posts, read 3,120,686 times
Reputation: 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I dismiss and deride nothing. I question and express amazement at the willful retention of ancient ignorance as a sign of Faith in God . . . as if God would require such a thing. I am certain that it will not be well received by God.(Again the certainty applies only to me). Of course being CERTAIN . . . I think my views are more correct than those that disagree with mine. Yes, I have learned much from others over the years and continue to do so. The method I use is the "mind of Christ" as HE PRESENTED HIMSELF (NOT as the "precepts and doctrines of men" would present Him by merging Him with the OT beliefs and superstitions about Jehovah). I ask WWJT and sincerely query my heart with the guidance of the Comforter to ascertain if it is compatible with the true nature of God that Christ unambiguously revealed by His life, teachings and death . . . and in His Gospel of Love.If you have not experienced the kind of "knowing" that accompanies deep meditative states . . . it is impossible to describe it adequately using words. Have you ever had a dream and "Known" something was part of the dream and true . . . but there was NOTHING in the dream itself about it or that would account for it? If you have . . . it is that kind of inexplicable "knowing." I have vetted the nature of the consciousness I encounter repeatedly and it is always the same . . . "unconditional love and acceptance" . . . much as I would expect the Comforter to do. He responds to my queries but never verbally or visually . . . just in that "knowing" manner.

Early on I was frustrated by the lack of verbal or visual communication and made my frustration obvious. Clearly I was biased by the notions of Omnipotence, etc. that seem to be the mandatory attributes of God according to us humans. But I eventually realized we had no reason to expect that to be true. That was when the notion of a "womb" came to me as the description of our current physical existence. We are in a "spiritual womb" and our Father has limited ways to communicate with us . . . much as earthly Fathers do with their unborn child. We are all "spiritual embryos" . . . "unborn" until we are reborn as Spirit upon our death.That is my view anyway. YMMV. I realize that few people want or will accept a limited God. They demand that God be Omnipotent, Omniscient, etc.etc.etc. I have no problem with that. It could just be that God chooses to communicate using the direct "knowing" instead of verbal or visual communication. C'est la vie.
Your vocabulary shows no study in theology. The idea's you have about meditation are less then what would be understood, as private revelations.

Why do you embrace Christianity and reject any measure of decent behavior, known as morals or teachings ?
 
Old 05-30-2013, 10:43 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,180,923 times
Reputation: 2295
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazzer View Post
Your vocabulary shows no study in theology. The idea's you have about meditation are less then what would be understood, as private revelations.

Why do you embrace Christianity and reject any measure of decent behavior, known as morals or teachings?
You've got to be kidding?
 
Old 05-30-2013, 11:04 PM
 
63,446 posts, read 39,695,513 times
Reputation: 7787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
You've got to be kidding?
I chalk it up to the language barrier, Jerwade. I can hardly comprehend a word he writes . . . apparently it is the same in the other direction!
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