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Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Yeah, the Great White Throne Judgment spoken of in Revelation.
How will they get across the chasm, since their names are not in the Lamb's Book of Life?
I wanted to start this thread - not to be a debate with ETers but to show to others and maybe even a few of them that they got some verses wrong. I'm going to start with an often quoted one and how ETers ATTEMPT to use this to put down universalism. If this goes well, I create different threads for different verses with the same sort of heading.
KJV
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
ETers want you to believe that Matthew 7:14 is showing us that only FEW shall ever FIND the way that leads to life. But I'm going to show you now why that is an INCORRECT interpretation of this verse. First, understand that I'm quoting the King James version of this verse.
The key word to look at in this verse is the word/verb "Find" in verse 14 above. The ETers would have you believe that this verse is showing us that the word FIND there is FUTURE tense and if that was the case then it would indeed be telling us that there would be FEW to EVER find the way leading to life. BUT what happens if the word FIND is NOT Future tense? What if it is PRESENT tense? Then the whole verse would FAIL to uphold the ETers view that FEW will EVER find the narrow way.
So now let's look closer at that verse and especially that word "Find". We know the KJV version was translated from a Greek text. Let's look at the Greek text:
First here is the proper Strong's numbers for the verses:
Mat 7:13 EnterG1525 ye inG1223 at theG3588 straitG4728 gate:G4439 forG3754 wideG4116 is theG3588 gate,G4439 andG2532 broadG2149 is theG3588 way,G3598 that leadethG520 toG1519 destruction,G684 andG2532 manyG4183 there beG1526 which go inG1525 thereat:G1223 G846
Mat 7:14 BecauseG3754 straitG4728 is theG3588 gate,G4439 andG2532 narrowG2346 is theG3588 way,G3598 whichG3588 leadethG520 untoG1519 life,G2222 andG2532 fewG3641 there beG1526 that findG2147 it.G846
I have bolded Strong's number G2147 above. Now let's look at the number in the Greek parsing:
Again,I have bolded G2147 above. Notice the parsing for this (V-PAP-NPM). This "V" means this is a verb, which we already knew. The very next letter is the tense and that tense is "P" which stands here for PRESENT Tense. So there we have it. Jesus was actually speaking here in the PRESENT Tense. He was not saying that Few would EVER FIND the narrow way (future tense) but saying that Few were FINDING the narrow way at that time (Present tense).
Here is a better translation of that aspect as found in the YLT (Youngs Literal Translation):
Mat 7:13 `Go ye in through the strait gate, because wide is the gate, and broad the way that is leading to the destruction, and many are those going in through it;
Mat 7:14 how strait is the gate, and compressed the way that is leading to the life, and few are those finding it!
Notice that the verse is much more recognized as being spoken of as in the PRESENT tense in the YLT version.
To aid the student in understanding this I highly recommend the e-sword Bible software and the Youngs Literal Translation download and King James Version downloads along with the Greek Westcott Hort with Strong's numbers download.
Hopefully, you can refer to this thread anytime to counter the understanding that ETers promote so you can rightfully compare and seek the Truth.
The YLT looks more like a question than a statement...
The YLT looks more like a question than a statement...
Not to me it doesn't. The "how" in Jesus' statement simply magnifies how narrow the gate is.
The narrow gate is not hard find when you follow the teachings( the way to the narrow gate)of Jesus Christ. This is why he said you believe in God believe also in me(my teachings),and learn of me, and why sitting at his feet(understanding) is choosing the better part
I wanted to start this thread - not to be a debate with ETers but to show to others and maybe even a few of them that they got some verses wrong. I'm going to start with an often quoted one and how ETers ATTEMPT to use this to put down universalism. If this goes well, I create different threads for different verses with the same sort of heading.
KJV
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
ETers want you to believe that Matthew 7:14 is showing us that only FEW shall ever FIND the way that leads to life. But I'm going to show you now why that is an INCORRECT interpretation of this verse. First, understand that I'm quoting the King James version of this verse.
The key word to look at in this verse is the word/verb "Find" in verse 14 above. The ETers would have you believe that this verse is showing us that the word FIND there is FUTURE tense and if that was the case then it would indeed be telling us that there would be FEW to EVER find the way leading to life. BUT what happens if the word FIND is NOT Future tense? What if it is PRESENT tense? Then the whole verse would FAIL to uphold the ETers view that FEW will EVER find the narrow way.
So now let's look closer at that verse and especially that word "Find". We know the KJV version was translated from a Greek text. Let's look at the Greek text:
First here is the proper Strong's numbers for the verses:
Mat 7:13 EnterG1525 ye inG1223 at theG3588 straitG4728 gate:G4439 forG3754 wideG4116 is theG3588 gate,G4439 andG2532 broadG2149 is theG3588 way,G3598 that leadethG520 toG1519 destruction,G684 andG2532 manyG4183 there beG1526 which go inG1525 thereat:G1223 G846
Mat 7:14 BecauseG3754 straitG4728 is theG3588 gate,G4439 andG2532 narrowG2346 is theG3588 way,G3598 whichG3588 leadethG520 untoG1519 life,G2222 andG2532 fewG3641 there beG1526 that findG2147 it.G846
I have bolded Strong's number G2147 above. Now let's look at the number in the Greek parsing:
Again,I have bolded G2147 above. Notice the parsing for this (V-PAP-NPM). This "V" means this is a verb, which we already knew. The very next letter is the tense and that tense is "P" which stands here for PRESENT Tense. So there we have it. Jesus was actually speaking here in the PRESENT Tense. He was not saying that Few would EVER FIND the narrow way (future tense) but saying that Few were FINDING the narrow way at that time (Present tense).
Here is a better translation of that aspect as found in the YLT (Youngs Literal Translation):
Mat 7:13 `Go ye in through the strait gate, because wide is the gate, and broad the way that is leading to the destruction, and many are those going in through it;
Mat 7:14 how strait is the gate, and compressed the way that is leading to the life, and few are those finding it!
Notice that the verse is much more recognized as being spoken of as in the PRESENT tense in the YLT version.
To aid the student in understanding this I highly recommend the e-sword Bible software and the Youngs Literal Translation download and King James Version downloads along with the Greek Westcott Hort with Strong's numbers download.
Hopefully, you can refer to this thread anytime to counter the understanding that ETers promote so you can rightfully compare and seek the Truth.
- So if the premise of what Jesus said was for present tense?
Then it is now past tense.
And we're to believe no one is now finding the strait gate?
So, it's not everyone, or even most. I guess it could be said few.
The narrow gate is not about going to a place called heaven, it is a gate that leads to a place...... A state of being( if you have seen me you have seen the Father), and few including us Christians are finding it, because the entrance fee is death to self. Following the teachings of Jesus will eventually put to death our old self.
- So if the premise of what Jesus said was for present tense?
Then it is now past tense.
And we're to believe no one is now finding the strait gate?
Since it was stated in present tense I think we should not making assumptions about it what it means to something that is no longer in the Present Tense of when Jesus spoke those words.
The key takeaway from the OP is that ETers, or anyone for that matter, should not be using this verse to to imply that it says that Only a Few will EVER BE SAVED (Future tense), when Jesus did not say that in this verse.
If you have read this verse carefully there are some that have tried to attach other verses to this one as if it must mean Future tense because other verses speak of this in the future tense. To say such, is to deliver this verse in a way in which Jesus, DIDN'T.
"‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’” (Matthew 7:22–23)
...he will eventually welcome them across the "chasm" (Luke 16)?
They will be redeemed, yes.
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