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Not trying to defend anyone but it bothers me that people at Westboro Baptist church call themselves Christians. I don't want people to think that is what a Christian is.
Second as I have read several times on this forum, people ask why if we are all Christians can we not agree. I guess in that light the idea that anyone can call themselves a Christian does sometimes make us all look bad.
I agree with you wholeheartedly--particularly the bolded part.
I fully believe, and in my experience it holds true, that the vast majority of Christians are loving, kind, intelligent people.
I am proud to count many Christians among my family and friends and, trust me, plenty of them are far more intelligent than I am.
I don't believe the Westboro people or the KKK, etc. are indicative of Christianity or Christians at all, and it's unfortunate that they can give the entire body of Christians a bad name.
Similarly, I have been friends with many Muslims over the years and in different parts of the country. Here too, I totally believe most Mulsims are peaceful, loving, reasonable people (regardless of the seemingly widespread violence and lunacy among many Muslims in the Mid-East.) I don't believe the overzealous, rage-filled suicide bomber or Taliban member is indicative of all of Islam or its followers.
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Originally Posted by balunman
How does that affect what I have been told about this one church by other members of it? Not sure I understand how your comment relates to the discussion between Kat and me.
Well, I didn't mean to intrude on the discussion. I hadn't read the whole thread. I was just trying to point out that there have always been schisms and profound differences between different sects/denominations of Christians. Some Christian groups from the early centuries after the time of Jesus would be completely unrecognizable as Christians in most parts of the world today.
I mean, there are significant differences even between, say, the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church, not to mention, say, Methodists and Seventh Day Adventists.
Having said this, I realize it is obvious and not news to anyone.
You can call yourself a jelly donut for all I care, but if you claim to be what I am and you proceed to say stuff that is opposite of what my beliefs are......one of us is wrong. If you continue to claim you are the same as me you are then calling me a liar. That bothers me.
All you are doing here is identifying yourself with a belief,who says your beliefs are right ?, the bible ?, well Katz bible tells her she is right too. Our true identity is who we are in Christ.
Have you thought what you are saying could actually be bothering Katz too ?.
What about those of us who don't believe that the OT and NT are all true? Does that also put me in the non-Christian camp?
I don't think a person has to believe all of the NT and OT are true in order to be a Christian.
I think a person would have to be very immoral and inherently evil to believe the first sentence in Numbers 31 is true.
In my opinion, if you believe the important parts of the NT are true and if you have no other holy books (except for "Golf is my Game" by Bob Jones), then you are a Christian.
Not trying to defend anyone but it bothers me that people at Westboro Baptist church call themselves Christians. I don't want people to think that is what a Christian is.
You know, I think it bothers most of us. On the other hand, as someone who is constantly being told that she is not a Christian, I would be advocating a double-standard if I were to say that members of the Westboro Baptist Church are not Christians. I think that most intelligent adults recognize that some people may technically be Christians, but may not behave in a very Christian manner.
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Second as I have read several times on this forum, people ask why if we are all Christians can we not agree. I guess in that light the idea that anyone can call themselves a Christian does sometimes make us all look bad.
I get what you're saying. It's just too bad that if, in a group of 100,000 people, one is a serial rapist, that's the one we notice.
I just wanted to make sure I understood correctly that you were a Mormon and that you consider your church to be just another denomination of Christianity and not "The Church". Most members of the Mormon church I have met have lead me to believe they considered the Mormon church as the only church that God honored. Not sure it all believe that or not. Just checking.
Thanks for clarifying that, balunman. That explains why you used the words "just another." I wasn't exactly sure what you meant by that, so my answer may not have been exactly what you were looking for. In the interest of full disclosure, I'd say that we don't consider ourselves to be "just another" Christian denomination. We do believe that we have what we refer to as "the fullness of the gospel," whereas other Christian denominations contain much truth, but some error. I believe Roman Catholicism sees itself in much the same way. On the other hand, we don't believe that having "the fullness of the gospel" is essential to gain salvation. I've heard it stated that we have "the biggest Heaven and the littlest Hell" of any Christian denomination around. Many of the more conservative Christian groups seem to think that all of the other conservative Christians groups are essentially the same and that their members are all "saved" but other groups (definitely Mormons and often Catholics) are destined to eternal damnation. So that's kind of a more comprehensive answer for you.
(By the way, I felt it only honest to answer your question, but I do hope my answer hasn't changed the direction of this thread. I never really intended it to be a thread on whether or not Mormons are Christians, but a thread on why it matters to other people how we self-identify. I hope everybody will respect my wishes and stick to the OP.)
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And so you know what my limited knowledge of your church is let me tell you. When I was about 13 my uncle joined the LDS church. I attended one service along with my parents where my uncle and aunt spoke. My father allowed the 2 missionaries to come to our house and do some lessons maybe 3 or 4 times. Later in my early 20's I worked with a man who was a Bishop and had a few discussions with him about the church. There are some other encounters but that should give you some idea of what little I know about your church. Don't know it that will help or not but just wanted you to know.
Strange question but I will give it a try. First, so you will know, I am a 65 year old woman with a whole lifetime of stories that would and could identify who I have become but I believe in taking people as I find them not for who they self-identify as. So, as far as I am concerned, NO it does not matter to me how you self identify. Why would the way you choose to describe yourself affect me or anyone else personally?? You are free to describe yourself any way you choose. This is America and go for it. If you wanted to describe yourself as a short, purple martian with horns...amusing...and might be a twist on what this blogging site is all about. Ok, now last question. If you have all of the above rights and are free to identify who you are then why would you care or not care about denying what you believe yourself to be?? No one in this lifetime or in any other really cares one way or the other who you are or what you want to be. NOW....on the other hand...if who you are and what you believe crosses my line of family, home, friends and hurts me either emotionally or physically, then there would be an issue. So.............hope I didn't derail your post in any way. It was a challenging thing to not have happen with questions like this. Good Post!!
Thanks for clarifying that, balunman. That explains why you used the words "just another." I wasn't exactly sure what you meant by that, so my answer may not have been exactly what you were looking for. In the interest of full disclosure, I'd say that we don't consider ourselves to be "just another" Christian denomination. We do believe that we have what we refer to as "the fullness of the gospel," whereas other Christian denominations contain much truth, but some error. I believe Roman Catholicism sees itself in much the same way. On the other hand, we don't believe that having "the fullness of the gospel" is essential to gain salvation. I've heard it stated that we have "the biggest Heaven and the littlest Hell" of any Christian denomination around. Many of the more conservative Christian groups seem to think that all of the other conservative Christians groups are essentially the same and that their members are all "saved" but other groups (definitely Mormons and often Catholics) are destined to eternal damnation. So that's kind of a more comprehensive answer for you.
(By the way, I felt it only honest to answer your question, but I do hope my answer hasn't changed the direction of this thread. I never really intended it to be a thread on whether or not Mormons are Christians, but a thread on why it matters to other people how we self-identify. I hope everybody will respect my wishes and stick to the OP.)
Thanks! It does help immensely.
My intent was to make sure I am understanding your position correctly and not making assumptions. Thanks for sharing with me. I too hope this thread does not get off track.
Suppose a devout Mormon friend of yours told you she had received a message directly from your god. Her god gave her a whole new set of Doctrines and Covenants, none of which contradict the ones you normally use. She found followers and they established her own church with a new name, which they now attend regularly.
She says she is still a Mormon. Do you consider her to be a Mormon?
I know I cannot speak for anyone else but I think I understand why some may take issue with a Mormon calling themselves a Christian. First of all there are many I wish did not use the title because I believe they only degrade the name of Christ by doing so. In that vain of thinking, if someone considers the Jesus that Mormons teach of as not the same Jesus they follow I can understand why they would be offended when a Mormon uses the common title that they use to describe those who follow the Jesus they do. I would hope that most Mormons (Salt Lake City type) would be offended that Warren Jeffs and his followers use the title Mormon and by doing so make most people believe that all Mormons are like them. While I know enough about the Mormons to know that the group that followed Brigham Young to Utah do not practice many of the things that Jeffs followers do today. But most people do not take time to study up on it. Just as many think Christians are all like the worst people they have seen who use that title, many believe all Mormons are like the worst they see who use that title.
I believe many Christians want to make sure that others do not think they have any fellowship or common religion with some other groups.
Please note: This is not a thread in which you are being asked why you don't believe Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh-Day Adventists, Catholics or anybody else is not a Christian. Please don't turn in into one. The questions to be discussed are:
Why does it matter so much to you how I self-identify?
How does the way in which I choose to describe myself affect you personally in any way?
Would I be honest if I were to deny what I believe myself to be?
I really want to discuss these questions. Please do not attempt to derail this thread.
The way in which you choose to describe yourself doesn't affect me personally, but the way you act does and many times will be associated with what you believe to those who don't have positive personal experiences with your beliefs. This is what disappoints me many times with Christians who keep doing what I consider to be nonsense and why I only tend to get as close to many of them as I can tolerate. For example, the word "racist" might not mean anything to a child who has never experienced "racism". But to the one who has experienced racism first hand the word "racist" leaves a bitter taste in their mouth. If you think of it from that perspective, I think it makes sense when people on here who have had terrible experiences start bashing you, even if you've done nothing to them personally. And it's because their personal experience with Christians caused them emotional pains. Becoming aware of this makes it easier to move on from them.
In terms of fundamentalist christians though, I've had some really interesting run ins with them online but they're kind of new to my offline life as some of my friends are now "Evangelical Christians". I never knew about them in other parts of the world and they can annoy me because their beliefs don't just remain their own, they try to extend it to me, like it's a net that's suppose to be all encompassing and they don't bother to think outside of the box and ask a person, "Who are you?" they just begin to tell you who you should be. And there in lies the problem.
No, you wouldn't be honest if you were to deny what you believe yourself to be.
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