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Ditto. It's the one question that really throws a monkey wrench into things and messes with my head. It. sometimes even becomes a deal-breaker in the constant struggle in my own mind between atheism and theism.
The only thing I can come up with, Heartsong, is that God isn't a micro-manager. Perhaps it is simply by virtue of God's very existence that the universe came into being and the processes by which life developed and the consequent outcomes were not God's "plan" but simply what had to be because God IS. The fact that God is love assures that the final outcome will be in harmony with love, because love is the most powerful force influencing all of us.
Maybe it's something akin to a birthing process. The contractions necessary to birth our children are incredibly powerful, thus often painful in our experience. We suffer, but the end result is incredibly joyful and transcendent. Brings to mind that passage in Romans: For we know that all creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.
Just my thoughts.
Thank you, Pleroo. Very good thoughts. I appreciate them and you a lot.
And who killed the first animal in the garden of Eden?
A: The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. Genesis 3:21
And whose sacrifice to the LORD was found to be acceptable?
[1] Cain, the vegetarian: In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord.
[2] Abel, the animal slaughterer:Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock.
A: (drum roll please ...) The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offeringGenesis 4:4
And yet who does God curse for being the murderer .... Cain, the vegetarian !!!
Yes, well I've never trusted that angry LORD GOD of the Old Testament, so I'm not surprised about his
curses. He ain't Jesus. Jesus's blood speaks of better things that that of Abel.
God made Adam to be the federal heir of Earth. When the head of Earth sinned, God saw the whole world fall because its head fell. The same could be asked, why do we all suffer because of what Adam did? But you can also look at it like this, why are we are all saved? Because of what Jesus did. If God accepts the high priest, He accepts the entire nation. Since Adam was the high priest over Earth in the beginning, and he sinned, the whole world was rejected. But since God made Jesus to be the high priest over all the Earth, and He did not sin and sacrificed to God when He owed nothing, God accepts the entire world. The only part we have in all this is to believe that actually happened.
Does this mean you believe there will be immortal animals? I hope so.
The reason for all bad things in our world is Original Sin, Genesis 3. Our world is broken, and will remain so until the New Heaven and New Earth spoken of in the book of Revelation.
Why would a god cause this anyway?
If Yahweh is omniscient and onmipotent, then he knew before creation that this would happen, that billions would be consigned to Hell, etc., etc.
Do you think Yahweh was surprised at the actions of Adam and Eve in the Garden?
If so, this deity is clearly not omniscient. How many things does this deity NOT know in that case?
Yes, well I've never trusted that angry LORD GOD of the Old Testament, so I'm not surprised about his
curses. He ain't Jesus. Jesus's blood speaks of better things that that of Abel.
God apparently has a split personality, or somehow underwent a remarkable, incredible change.
Why would an omniscient, omnipotent, allegedly eternal god have such a personality shift?
This deity would seem to be changeable and malleable to fit the personalities of those who believe in him.
When evil entered the world through disobedience, which I feel HAD to happen, it fell upon all the inhabitants. Was it fair that ALL of Adam's ancestors inherited the death sentence, the condition of mortality?
Not only does it not seem fair, it seems incredibly sadistic. There is, in reality, no way to reconcile the notion of an omniscient and benevolent god with the idea that this god either didn't know Adam and Eve would succumb to temptation or is all-loving.
Quote:
Originally Posted by romans519
God made Adam to be the federal heir of Earth. When the head of Earth sinned, God saw the whole world fall because its head fell.
Again I ask--do you believe that god was not aware that Adam would sin and bring death and evil into the world? Was that a big surprise to god?
Quote:
God accepts the entire world.
Ah. So Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus and unbelievers are all part of the family then?
It's one of my early questions and I see the answers availathat show ble haven't changed.
You all veer away from the animal part of it. Man is supposedly what disappointed your god and suffering is the result.
The question is why must innocent animals suffer?
Are there some missing books of your bible that discuss the rules they are supposed to follow that they have failed at?
Not only does it not seem fair, it seems incredibly sadistic. There is, in reality, no way to reconcile the notion of an omniscient and benevolent god with the idea that this god either didn't know Adam and Eve would succumb to temptation or is all-loving.
Again I ask--do you believe that god was not aware that Adam would sin and bring death and evil into the world? Was that a big surprise to god?
Ah. So Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus and unbelievers are all part of the family then?
You seem to care more about finding contradictions in God's word than seeing the context of it. If God didn't give Adam a way to say no to Him, then Adam does not have free choice. So God planted the tree of knowledge of good and evil which now gives Adam a choice and a way to acknowledge God as God. Now God has brought us back to the way it was in the beginning. By saying yes to Jesus we are acknowledging God as God. Its a choice. Everyone can be saved today if we all just believe in Jesus. Now God has placed the whole world under the new covenant of grace because of what Jesus did. But just as Adam had a choice in the garden to say no to God, we now have a choice to say no to Jesus. But don't forget, God told Adam the consequence before he committed the sin. Its the same now. The bible tells us the consequence if we say no to Jesus. No one is obligated but isn't it a shame that people go to hell because they simply reject good news?
If God didn't give Adam a way to say no to Him, then Adam does not have free choice.
In light of the belief in a supposedly omniscient, omnipotent god, free will cannot exist. It is an illusion. Unless you believe that the supposedly omniscient god does not have any clue as to the choices and decisions and actions his creatures will make.
Quote:
So God planted the tree of knowledge of good and evil which now gives Adam a choice and a way to acknowledge God as God. Now God has brought us back to the way it was in the beginning. By saying yes to Jesus we are acknowledging God as God. Its a choice. Everyone can be saved today if we all just believe in Jesus. Now God has placed the whole world under the new covenant of grace because of what Jesus did. But just as Adam had a choice in the garden to say no to God, we now have a choice to say no to Jesus. But don't forget, God told Adam the consequence before he committed the sin. Its the same now. The bible tells us the consequence if we say no to Jesus. No one is obligated but isn't it a shame that people go to hell because they simply reject good news?
None of this goes anywhere near answering my very direct, simple, honest question:
Do you believe that god was not aware that Adam would sin and bring death and evil into the world? Was that a big surprise to god?
If so, what else does God not know? Because if that's the case, he clearly doesn't know everything, which would seem to contradict The Bible.
In light of the belief in a supposedly omniscient, omnipotent god, free will cannot exist. It is an illusion. Unless you believe that the supposedly omniscient god does not have any clue as to the choices and decisions and actions his creatures will make.
None of this goes anywhere near answering my very direct, simple, honest question:
Do you believe that god was not aware that Adam would sin and bring death and evil into the world? Was that a big surprise to god?
If so, what else does God not know? Because if that's the case, he clearly doesn't know everything, which would seem to contradict The Bible.
Of course God knew. Free choice is not free choice unless you can say no. Why did God not intervene their sin? Because He is a just God. Did He not tell them the consequence first? You're trying to put fault with God where there is none.
By the way, did you even watch the short video I posted?
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