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You better go back and talk with your Bishop and Stake President. The Standard Works are not the entire canon or source of LDS doctrine.
The statement I posted previously was from a higher source than either a bishop or stake president. It was from the First Presidency and the Quorom of the Twelve. The only exception I can think of to this general rule is that statements on theology issued jointly by all fifteen of the men that constitute the "First Presidency" and "The Quorum of the Twelve Apostles," could be considered doctrine. This doesn't really happen often, and sooner or later these statements usually end up being added to the Doctrine and Covenants anyway.
In reading the responses I don't think you got a direct answer to this question.
The short answer is yes, Latter Day Saints believe that in order to attain the celestial kingdom (or the "highest level of Heaven" as you put it) a believer must follow all doctrines and covenants of the church, which includes giving a full 10% tithe.
Don't worry, though, if you're a little short you can still make the terrestrial kingdom and receive the fullness of the Son, just not the presence of the Father.
Just to round things out, the third level - the telestial kingdom - is for folks who have never heard the Gospel, or have accepted it but continued to live a life of sin. The Holy Spirit is the only heavenly being in this kingdom. In many ways it seems to be an extension of life on Earth.
What happens to people who join the church or are born into it and later reject it and leave?
Katzpur, I appreciate your effort to explain some doctrinal points about The LDS. The wife and I are planning to retire to southeast Idaho next year and that area is close to 50% LDS. We are even planning on attending a service at a local Temple to get some idea about worship services.
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Originally Posted by duster1979
Not gonna happen. You have to be a member of the LDS church in good standing and be given a temple recommend to even set foot in the temple.
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Originally Posted by Wardendresden
They did not mention whether it would be a "temple" or a meeting house. However, if the Jews can have their Holy of Holies, I suppose the Mormons are entitled to the same thing.
Duster is just being, what the Bible refers to as an "offender for a word." You used the word "temple" and there he was, right there to make sure you knew that Mormon temples are off-limits to non-members.
Sunday services are welcome to the public. And yes, the entire service lasts, as Dustin pointed out, for three hours. (LOL -- I just about typed "three years" 'cause sometimes it feels like that!). There are three separate meetings. You may wish to attend all three or maybe just one. If you choose to attend just one, it would probably be "Sacrament Meeting." It's the most important one of the three, as it is the one where we receive the "Sacrament" (aka, Communion, the Lord's Supper, etc.). There are hymns, short sermons (we use the term "talks"), etc. You'd probably find it similar in some ways to the worship services of many Protestant groups. The last two hours are classroom study. There is generally (depending upon the need and interest) even a class that's kind of an introduction to Mormon doctrine. If you decide to go, I'd be happy to fill you in with a little more detail of what to expect.
What happens to people who join the church or are born into it and later reject it and leave?
Those who reject the Gospel of Christ wind up in the outer darkness (Hell). The official position of the LDS church is that someone who leaves the LDS church but maintains belief in the Gospel of the New Testament would go to the terrestrial or telestrial kingdom, depending on what kind of life they live after leaving.
LDS believe that the Book of Mormon is a part of the Gospel so of course there are hard-liners who believe that rejection of its teachings is the same as rejection of the entire Gospel. Those folks would have you going to the outer darkness.
Those who reject the Gospel of Christ wind up in the outer darkness (Hell). The official position of the LDS church is that someone who leaves the LDS church but maintains belief in the Gospel of the New Testament would go to the terrestrial or telestrial kingdom, depending on what kind of life they live after leaving.
LDS believe that the Book of Mormon is a part of the Gospel so of course there are hard-liners who believe that rejection of its teachings is the same as rejection of the entire Gospel. Those folks would have you going to the outer darkness.
The reason I asked the questions is because I know someone (actually a married couple) who got married in the LDS church and had been teachers and help positions (I don't know all the titles) such as Sunday school teachers and he had held a position as a aide or counselor to his preacher or I think he called him the branch president. They asked for their names to be removed from the roles of the church and show a copy of that letter and the letter acknowledging it from the church. They go around to church groups teaching about he Mormon church and they always state that they know it is a false church and false prophets and false books, etc, etc. I just wondered how the Mormons felt about people like them.
Duster is just being, what the Bible refers to as an "offender for a word." You used the word "temple" and there he was, right there to make sure you knew that Mormon temples are off-limits to non-members.
Yes, because I'm omniscient and knew that Mr. Wardendresen was using the work "temple" as a generalization for "house of worship" and not talking about an actual temple.
I was just trying to save the Wardendresens the embarrassment of having a guard stop them and ask to see their recommend as they unwittingly try to enter a temple (and if you've never seen it happen, it really can be very embarrassing depending on how the guard handles the situation. Some of them are very gung-ho about their duties).
Nothing wrong that I can see. You've obviously done your homework. A+
The amusing part is that most of that comparative viewpoint comparison comes from a Pentecostal Pastor I know and not from a Latter Day Saint. A very open-minded fellow who has long since abandoned the ridiculous notion of damning all Latter Day Saints to hell, but he is by no means one of you.
When he explained those very comparative fundamentals, much of the confusion that we see in discussions between LDS and more traditional Christians became a lot less confusing. Without those fundamentals, most Christians on the outside looking in see blasphemy and scandal where there really isn't any. "Lucifer and Jesus were brothers" is perhaps the most popular one. You hear that one a lot. To your average Christian -- minus the foundational understanding of what LDS believe angels are -- that statement elevates Lucifer to a status of being Christ's equal. We would tend jump to the incorrect conclusion that the LDS Church believes that in the beginning, there was (in effect) God the Father, God the Son Jesus, God the other Son Lucifer and God the Holy Spirit. And that is why it can seem so scandalous -- all based entirely upon misunderstanding.
Sometimes, all it takes is a little bit of knowledge to avoid jumping to the wrong conclusion.
You are getting an entirely different perspective on Mormon doctrine from duster than you are from me. It's really unfortunate that you now find yourself in the position of not having any real means of knowing which of us is being honest with you. I don't know what duster's background or credentials are. I'll let him fill you in on those. Here are mine...
I was born to practicing LDS parents almost 65 years ago. I grew up in a family where we kids were taught the importance of asking questions. I learned from an early age that just because I heard something said over the pulpit, that was no reason to assume it was true. I grew up being encouraged to think for myself, even to doubt. If I'd believed everything I ever heard in Sunday School, my dad would be rolling over in his grave right now.
I grew up with a strong belief in Jesus Christ as my Savior and have always found it really odd when people tell me I'm not a Christian. I have, however, definitely followed my dad's advise and have never just bought into Mormonism hook, line, and sinker. I have looked at the anti-Mormon claims and I have looked at the rebuttals to those claims. I have an extensive library of books on Mormonism and on comparative Christianity. I actually began to be interested in the difference between my Church and other Christian Churches at about the age of 12, maybe younger, so I do have quite a long history of examining the differences between LDS Christianity and traditional Christianity.
Growing up Mormon, I have probably attended between 6000 and 7000 hours of LDS Church worship services and classroom study during my adult life alone. Add to that, the time I spent in church growing up, not to mention daily religious training during four years of high school, and the number does up exponentially. What I'm telling you is that I am knowledgable in Mormonism. I am very knowledgable. I am also honest in how I explain my faith, and honesty is, in my opinion, every bit as important as knowledge. I have no desire to paint my Church's doctrines and its history in anything other than accurate terms. Furthermore, I will even go out on a limb and say when my personal beliefs are at odds with Church policy, which they occasionally are. (Take the issue of gay rights, for instance.)
As far as what happens to people who die without ever having converted to Mormonism, as far as what happens to Mormons in-name-only, etc. the truth of the matter is that the decision as to their eternal destiny is not determined at death. Our belief in a spirit realm where the cognizant spirits of each person who has ever lived continue to learn, grow and make decisions of eternal importance makes it virtually impossible for any of us to say with any degree of accuracy where either we or anybody else is going to end up. So, on this matter and others, you can either choose to believe that my information is accurate or that duster's is.
The reason I asked the questions is because I know someone (actually a married couple) who got married in the LDS church and had been teachers and help positions (I don't know all the titles) such as Sunday school teachers and he had held a position as a aide or counselor to his preacher or I think he called him the branch president. They asked for their names to be removed from the roles of the church and show a copy of that letter and the letter acknowledging it from the church. They go around to church groups teaching about he Mormon church and they always state that they know it is a false church and false prophets and false books, etc, etc. I just wondered how the Mormons felt about people like them.
To put it mildly, the Mormons are not fans of these folks.
A couple who used to live in my area did this as well. They've received death threats and have been the target of numerous smear campaigns. I want to point out that this isn't coming from the LDS church but from angry members acting on their own.
The reason I asked the questions is because I know someone (actually a married couple) who got married in the LDS church and had been teachers and help positions (I don't know all the titles) such as Sunday school teachers and he had held a position as a aide or counselor to his preacher or I think he called him the branch president. They asked for their names to be removed from the roles of the church and show a copy of that letter and the letter acknowledging it from the church. They go around to church groups teaching about he Mormon church and they always state that they know it is a false church and false prophets and false books, etc, etc. I just wondered how the Mormons felt about people like them.
Mormons, like everybody else, have varying interpretations and understandings of issues such as this one. There is no clear-cut answer to this question, unfortunately. My own belief is that God is not very pleased with this individual right now, not so much because he chose to leave the church but because he is actively engaged in trying to denegrade it. (Ex-Mormons, like ex's of many other faiths, often leave with such a chip on their shoulder that they end up spending the entire remainder of their lives focused on discrediting what they used to believe instead of on what they now believe. In other words, they leave the Church, but they can't leave it alone.)
We believe in the Atonement of Jesus Christ and in His power to redeem us from almost every conceivable sin. We believe that our Father in Heaven wants us to repent and that He wants more than anything for all of us to return to Him. The couple you are referring to, assuming they die in the state they are now in, would be held accountable by God for their actions. This is not to say that their eternal destiny is sealed at death, because it isn't. Repentance is good up until Judgment Day. I can't say where they'll "end up" and neither can anyone else.
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