Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You keep making the Bible your Way . . .not Jesus. You are relying on words "written in ink" and not what the Holy Spirit guides us to that God has said would be "written in our hearts" in the New Covenant. Do you ever sincerely ask "What would Jesus Think" about any verse you are reading? I don't mean using the "precepts and doctrines of men" that have merged Christ's revelations about the true nature of God with the savage ignorant beliefs of our ancient ancestors about God (YHWH). I mean using what Jesus revealed about Himself and the Father by His life, teachings and death. It was pretty unambiguous and cannot be reconciled with what was believed about God from reading the OT under the veil of ignorance Christ came to lift.
Hebrews 8:7-13 King James Version (KJV)
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
2 Corinthians 3: 2-6 (King James Version)
2Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
1 John 2:27 (King James Version)
27But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.
2 Corinthians 3:14-17
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16Nevertheless when it (the Heart)shall turn to the Lord,(Jesus) the vail shall be taken away.
17Now the Lord is that Spirit:(Holy Spirit) and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
In many ways, we are speaking different languages. As I've repeatedly said, I believe that Jesus is the only way and that the Bible is God's inspired Word, given as a standard by which we can separate truth and error. Somehow, you keep 'hearing that' as "the Bible is your way."
However, I also depend on a God who is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow; ... a God who is always righteous, holy and just ... and who is not 'weakened' or 'made helpless' by the designs of men who would misinterpret or 'un-inspire' His Word of Truth. You seem to believe that 'poor old God' was completely undone by the 'ancients'. Satan thought the same thing when Jesus went to the cross (only an example, not intended as an inference)
You often infer or state your opinion that I am too literal or Bible dependent. Yet, your own posts and scriptural examples evidence that you are unwilling to look beyond an absolute literal interpretation of scripture (... when it fits your argument). You claim to listen to the Holy Spirit, yet, seem to believe that the Holy Spirit is often inconsistent with or apart from God's Word(?) -- Your scripture selections above, are good examples of where I think you have blinded yourself by your own too literal view:
Heb. 8:7-13 --- is actually affirming what scripture repeatedly says, 'that righteousness does not come by keeping the law', but, by faith and grace. God has not changed, but, people needed the 'OT law' to recognize their own sin and need of the Savior, Jesus Christ, 'who came at just the right time.
2 Cor 3:2-6 --- Is saying that our relationship with God is not based on how well we keep 'rules and laws', but, on the 'Spirit and truth contained in our heart.' Scripture deals with this principle repeatedly in things like 'double-mindedness', 'works vs grace' and 'those who keep the letter, but not the intent of the law.'
1 John 2:27 --- You are correct, this is talking about the leading of the Holy Spirit, vs "the teachings of men", but, this does NOT refer to God's Word and teachings (only to human misinterpretations). Scripture has remained virtually unchanged from the earliest Masoretic texts.
2 Cor 3:14-17 --- This is speaking about the Jews (and others) who remained blinded to the truth of Jesus Christ. Yes, they were largely blinded by their 'OT legalism,' but, that was never by God's intent. "God is Spirit and seeks those who worship Him in Spirit ... AND TRUTH."
In many ways, you seem to have 'blinded yourself' to the timeless truths of God and His Word, ...by your persistent claims that one can be led by the Holy Spirit, ... apart from or independent of God's Word. -- The danger in that is that one can claim almost anything they 'feel or think is true' as 'truth' ... with no further validation or verification.
Mystic. You forgot that the Bible also says that only those who believe are saved, and also that believers can fall away, lose their faith and their salvation. When the Bible says that Christ died once for all, what it means is that he has paid for the sins of all mankind. But if someone rejects Christ, that is they do not believe, then they are not saved. John 3:16-18. Some people seem to think that there is a highlighter on certain verses. One text does not contradict or nullify others. The NT texts have to be considered with equal weight. Therefore, a Christian needs to be a student of the scriptures, so that he or she is not deceived by evil spreaders of false doctrines.
I started this thread because in my absence from being on this Christianity forum, I am seeing many of the same topics being rehashed. Now don't get me wrong, I find the threads enlightening and sometimes frustrating when some posters just want to be mean and ugly with others.
When I start a thread, it's not my intent or motive to be mean or ugly or to get people to dialogue in that way. But it is my intent to glorify God as He has blessed me with the little understanding that His Holy Spirit has given me.
I don't know how many ways we can argue for or against the Trinity, hell, God's grace, eternal security etc. But I have started this thread to see for believers, like me, who think that Jesus is the only way to the Father, why you believe this important fact. I believe Jesus is the only way because Jesus said that He is the way, the truth, and the life, and no man can come to the father but by Him.
Beautiful post! I believe Jesus is the only way because if I had to follow the moral law, I would be in real trouble! I couldn't do it. Jesus' sacrifice frees us from that; His love for us is such a beautiful, wonderful, indescribable thing. I cringe at the thought of how before I degraded His beautiful name, and when I thought of Him before there was no feeling in my heart.
Even though I know He loves me and has forgiven me for that, sometimes I still cry because of how hurtful I was and how I didn't care at all about Him; it just makes me sad that I was that way though I know it is senseless to mourn for it now and that the sin of it has been blotted out. I think it's moreso that the memory of it is so close to me, and that I know other people still feel that way; His love is so beautiful, it is just so sad that not everyone experiences it! Maybe that's what I cry for the most, because He is so beautiful and perfect and His love is perfect and that it is not something shared by all.
Mystic. You forgot that the Bible also says that only those who believe are saved, and also that believers can fall away, lose their faith and their salvation. When the Bible says that Christ died once for all, what it means is that he has paid for the sins of all mankind. But if someone rejects Christ, that is they do not believe, then they are not saved. John 3:16-18. Some people seem to think that there is a highlighter on certain verses. One text does not contradict or nullify others. The NT texts have to be considered with equal weight. Therefore, a Christian needs to be a student of the scriptures, so that he or she is not deceived by evil spreaders of false doctrines.
Griffis: Yes, that is what the Bible teaches.
Augiedogie,
They do not or wantonly not understand the difference between Objective vs Subjective justification no matter how many times explained.
What occurs is that they usurp the objective as precedence over the subjective for an individual when it comes when one must stand before God. And if the subjective is not found when God searches the heart, the objective will be applied. How that is done is by whose version is telling the story.
Last edited by twin.spin; 06-23-2013 at 09:20 PM..
In many ways, we are speaking different languages. As I've repeatedly said, I believe that Jesus is the only way and that the Bible is God's inspired Word, given as a standard by which we can separate truth and error. Somehow, you keep 'hearing that' as "the Bible is your way."
The Bible contains inspirations from God for our instruction . . . both about Christ and about righteousness . . . but it is NOT God's word . . . Jesus IS! When you make it equal to God . . . you replace Jesus who is the Living Word of God. Making the Bible God is idolatry because only God is infallible and inerrant . . . not books cobbled together by humans in political conclaves by compromise.[quote]
However, I also depend on a God who is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow; ... a God who is always righteous, holy and just ... and who is not 'weakened' or 'made helpless' by the designs of men who would misinterpret or 'un-inspire' His Word of Truth. You seem to believe that 'poor old God' was completely undone by the 'ancients'. Satan thought the same thing when Jesus went to the cross (only an example, not intended as an inference). God is the same . . . but it is human beliefs ABOUT Him that were wrong and need to change based ENTIRELY on the revelations of Jesus Christ! His life teachings and death unambiguously revealed the TRUE NATURE of the Father who was so badly misunderstood by our ignorant ancient ancestors.
Quote:
You often infer or state your opinion that I am too literal or Bible dependent. Yet, your own posts and scriptural examples evidence that you are unwilling to look beyond an absolute literal interpretation of scripture (... when it fits your argument). You claim to listen to the Holy Spirit, yet, seem to believe that the Holy Spirit is often inconsistent with or apart from God's Word(?) -- Your scripture selections above, are good examples of where I think you have blinded yourself by your own too literal view:
Heb. 8:7-13 --- is actually affirming what scripture repeatedly says, 'that righteousness does not come by keeping the law', but, by faith and grace. God has not changed, but, people needed the 'OT law' to recognize their own sin and need of the Savior, Jesus Christ, 'who came at just the right time.
2 Cor 3:2-6 --- Is saying that our relationship with God is not based on how well we keep 'rules and laws', but, on the 'Spirit and truth contained in our heart.' Scripture deals with this principle repeatedly in things like 'double-mindedness', 'works vs grace' and 'those who keep the letter, but not the intent of the law.'
1 John 2:27 --- You are correct, this is talking about the leading of the Holy Spirit, vs "the teachings of men", but, this does NOT refer to God's Word and teachings (only to human misinterpretations). Scripture has remained virtually unchanged from the earliest Masoretic texts.
2 Cor 3:14-17 --- This is speaking about the Jews (and others) who remained blinded to the truth of Jesus Christ. Yes, they were largely blinded by their 'OT legalism,' but, that was never by God's intent. "God is Spirit and seeks those who worship Him in Spirit ... AND TRUTH."
Absolutely nothing you have said about these verses is correct. Your interpretations deny what Christ has unambiguously revealed about the Father and they retain the ancient ignorance of our ancestors.
Mystic. You forgot that the Bible also says that only those who believe are saved, and also that believers can fall away, lose their faith and their salvation. When the Bible says that Christ died once for all, what it means is that he has paid for the sins of all mankind. But if someone rejects Christ, that is they do not believe, then they are not saved. John 3:16-18. Some people seem to think that there is a highlighter on certain verses. One text does not contradict or nullify others. The NT texts have to be considered with equal weight. Therefore, a Christian needs to be a student of the scriptures, so that he or she is not deceived by evil spreaders of false doctrines.
Griffis: Yes, that is what the Bible teaches.
The Bible says no such thing. It says ALL are saved . . . ESPECIALLY those who believe. That is a very different interpretation from the exclusive nonsense so many Christians seem to prefer. God is no respecter of persons, period. NONE of us are special. What Christ achieved He achieved for our entire species. What you believe about the verses depends heavily on what you believe about the true nature of God. That is the context . . . and the beliefs about God of our ignorant ancestors are what have produced the corruptions of Christ's Gospel that dominate today . . . as was predicted would be true in the latter days. The development of the canon and the official doctrine occurred 300-400 years after Christ's death . . . that qualifies as the latter days to 1st century folk. There is no question that 2000+ years later when the majority were predicted to be apostate following anti-Christ doctrine . . . is even more their latter days. You can keep looking for the anti-Christ who the majority will follow . . . but I believe it has been here all along for centuries beginning with the RCC under Constantine.
Hi Antredd. I believe that Jesus is the only way because throughout human history God has revealed Himself to man. And some two thousand years ago, at the right time in accordance with His plan, God sent His Son into the world in fullfillment of the Old Testament prophecies which pointed to Him. Jesus showed Himself to be the Messiah through His birth, His life and teaching, His death, and His resurrection and ascension. After He rose from the dead He showed Himself to many, including His own brothers who had not believed what He said concerning Himself during His lifetime, but suddenly believed on Him as a result of the resurrection. James became one of the leaders in the early church. The apostles who except for John deserted Him when He was arrested, suddenly became bold and courageous after the resurrection and were willing to go to their deaths as martyrs, as were many in the early church. Many will die for what they believe to be true, but how many are willing to die for what they know to be false? How could I not believe that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life?
Hi Mike555 and thanks for contributing your thoughts. I agree with you 100%
The Bible says no such thing. It says ALL are saved . . . ESPECIALLY those who believe. That is a very different interpretation from the exclusive nonsense so many Christians seem to prefer. God is no respecter of persons, period. NONE of us are special. What Christ achieved He achieved for our entire species. What you believe about the verses depends heavily on what you believe about the true nature of God. That is the context . . . and the beliefs about God of our ignorant ancestors are what have produced the corruptions of Christ's Gospel that dominate today . . . as was predicted would be true in the latter days. The development of the canon and the official doctrine occurred 300-400 years after Christ's death . . . that qualifies as the latter days to 1st century folk. There is no question that 2000+ years later when the majority were predicted to be apostate following anti-Christ doctrine . . . is even more their latter days. You can keep looking for the anti-Christ who the majority will follow . . . but I believe it has been here all along for centuries beginning with the RCC under Constantine.
Just out of curiosity because it is a Christian forum, and it doesn't need to be a discussion or debate type of thing with conversation back and forth. (Ive been reading your entries for a few years now.
1)Whats the difference between your translation of Christianity and history's Flower Power Movement back in the sixties with the drugs and the love ins..? The God is love and consciousness, has no more in your substance then the two finger peace sign.
What is written in your hearts repeated over and over for years seems a consistent brainwashing technique, to back up the attacking as though there is some justification.
Instead of the drugs, meditation is used which is manipulation in chemistry as well, iow...very unusually manipulated and without question not a part of any bible teaching. I don't see where Jesus talked about God is consciousness or demonstrating how to meditate with a set of approach's. He went into the desert. (Not arguing strict meditation but also not arguing jogging.)
Also The Trinity and the Divinity is adamantly rejected, so its not an issue of maybe, you attack it.( not up for argument, Ive read enough of your posts and have a memory.
So I don't see how the Jesus figure cannot been seen as 'borrowed for this scheme. Its very confusing , unless a Third Testament is missing, thats how far out this stuff is. Same ole thing over and over and over
The Love in Flower Power style with the meditation like drug explaining many times over the past few years God came to see you, that is what you have said many times, followed by were all good to go..>No worries is declared, its looked after because you say so..Its almost what I'd expect to hear from the shifty ones in a sodom type society... all the while attacking the major issues of order, or in this Christianity itself. I don't know how much more polite this could be observed in forum subject.
BTW...if the Bible says all are saved it would assume a believer who is reading is interested in living a decent life, in requisite to be reading, and an effort to understand what is in the expectations ...otherwise there would be no point. Jesus would of just said...were good to go, God is consciousness and walked on water and that would be all.
Last edited by stargazzer; 06-24-2013 at 05:35 AM..
Twin: You have to keep in mind that although they did not understand, Jesus kept teaching. Even after the Jews rejected, Pentecost still came, and Peter preached to the Jews. The work of a Prophet is always to proclaim the word of God in its truth and purity. Read the book of Jeremiah some time. Jeremiah is told by God that He knows that no one will repent and believe HIm. But He still sends Jeremiah to preach. The NT calls Noah a preacher of righteousness. It seems that Noah, while building the Ark would have attracted a lot of crowds to see what he was up to. No doubt, Noah warned about the flood that was coming, but they still ignored him, and were all washed away in the flood. God is infinitely good, and so in his goodness he continues to hold out his mercy and forgiveness to stiff necked people. There is always the chance that some will repent, and believe the good news.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
