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Old 06-25-2013, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Jesus IS our Sabbath. The Sabbath just means rest. So we rest in Jesus.

Hebrews 4 goes into that, along with Jesus statement:

"Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." (Matthew 11:28-30)
Yes it is rest but from what?
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Yes it is rest but from what?
From work. From striving to do good. We no longer have to fulfill the Mosaic Law in order to be made righteous--we can rest in Christ. He fulfilled it and we can rest in his fulfilling the Law.
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:52 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Colossians 2:16-17 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Colossians 2:20-23 - If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!" (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)--in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.


Jesus declared all foods to be clean (Mark 7:15). He also told the parable of people who would do work in rescuing an ox on Sabbath.

For me, the Torah is obviously based on solid principles - but I am not Jewish. The penalties of breaking the Torah do not apply.
Jesus did not declare all foods clean as Matthew 15 and Mark 7 are talking about ceremonial hand washing doesn't make a person unclean.

Being under grave means you now have time to repent for breaking the Torah. Back then if you murdered and there were 2-3 witnesses, you were to be put to death, now under grace we can repent when we break the commands and dont go back to our sinful ways.
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
How do you see us observing the Sabbath?

Im not big one one having to do X,Y,Z on the Sabbath and refraining from any sort of pleasure, I leave that to the 7th day Adventist, Jews, and others obsessed with defining what you can and cant do on the Sabbath.

Only God himself know if the Sabbath is "The 7th Day" which would be Saturday or "Every 7th Day" which could be which ever day Sat, Sun, etc
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
From work. From striving to do good. We no longer have to fulfill the Mosaic Law in order to be made righteous--we can rest in Christ. He fulfilled it and we can rest in his fulfilling the Law.
From the Epistle of Barnabas:

CHAPTER XV.--THE FALSE AND THE TRUE SABBATH.

Further, also, it is written concerning the Sabbath in the Decalogue which [the Lord] spoke, face to face, to Moses on Mount Sinai, "And sanctify ye the Sabbath of the Lord with clean hands and a pure heart." And He says in another place, "If my sons keep the Sabbath, then will I cause my mercy to rest upon them." The Sabbath is mentioned at the beginning of the creation [thus]: "And God made in six days the works of His hands, and made an end on the seventh day, and rested on it, and sanctified it." Attend, my children, to the meaning of this expression, "He finished in six days." This implieth that the Lord will finish all things in six thousand years, for a day is with Him a thousand years. And He Himself testifieth, saying, "Behold, to-day will be as a thousand years." Therefore, my children, in six days, that is, in six thousand years, all things will be finished. "And He rested on the seventh day." This meaneth: when His Son, coming [again], shall destroy the time of the wicked man, and judge the ungodly, and change the-sun, and the moon, and the stars, then shall He truly rest on the seventh day. Moreover, He says, "Thou shalt sanctify it with pure hands and a pure heart." If, therefore, any one can now sanctify the day which God hath sanctified, except he is pure in heart in all things, we are deceived. Behold, therefore: certainly then one properly resting sanctifies it, when we ourselves, having received the promise, wickedness no longer existing, and all things having been made new by the Lord, shall be able to work righteousness. Then we shall be able to sanctify it, having been first sanctified ourselves. Further, He says to them, "Your new moons and your Sabbath I cannot endure." Ye perceive how He speaks: Your present Sabbaths are not acceptable to Me, but that is which I have made, [namely this,] when, giving rest to all things, I shall make a beginning of the eighth day, that is, a beginning of another world. Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead. And when He had manifested Himself, He ascended into the heavens.

The Epistle of Barnabas (translation Roberts-Donaldson)
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:59 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
Jesus did not declare all foods clean as Matthew 15 and Mark 7 are talking about ceremonial hand washing doesn't make a person unclean.

Being under grave means you now have time to repent for breaking the Torah. Back then if you murdered and there were 2-3 witnesses, you were to be put to death, now under grace we can repent when we break the commands and dont go back to our sinful ways.
Read chapter X here regarding the forbidden foods (very enlightening):

The Epistle of Barnabas (translation Roberts-Donaldson)
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Old 06-25-2013, 12:01 PM
 
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But my whole point is we as Christians are still required to follow Gods laws. There is no where in the entire bible that says, since Jesus died on the cross, you are free to do whatever and the commands of God mean nothing.

Even if you were to attempt to keep all 1050 commands in the NT, which you can since they are all do able, it just shows your Love for God that you want to keep his commands. And when i say commands, go back to my #1 post and im referring to moral commands, nothing ceremonial or sacrificial, since they were fulfilled and abolished.

You cant get saved by keeping commands or laws, but once your saved, they still serve as a great guideline on how we can live holy by what God demands instead of what we think. When we go by how we think we can Love God and Love one another, instead of how scriptures can we can, that is how we get 30,000+ denominations out there.
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Old 06-25-2013, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
From work. From striving to do good. We no longer have to fulfill the Mosaic Law in order to be made righteous--we can rest in Christ. He fulfilled it and we can rest in his fulfilling the Law.
Yes, there is a world of difference between being "eager to do good works" as in Titus and striving to gain salvation or even approval by those works.
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Old 06-25-2013, 12:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
Jesus did not declare all foods clean as Matthew 15 and Mark 7 are talking about ceremonial hand washing doesn't make a person unclean.
Mark 7:18-19 - And He said to them, "Are you so lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him, because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?" (Thus He declared all foods clean.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
But my whole point is we as Christians are still required to follow Gods laws. There is no where in the entire bible that says, since Jesus died on the cross, you are free to do whatever and the commands of God mean nothing.

Even if you were to attempt to keep all 1050 commands in the NT, which you can since they are all do able, it just shows your Love for God that you want to keep his commands. And when i say commands, go back to my #1 post and im referring to moral commands, nothing ceremonial or sacrificial, since they were fulfilled and abolished.
You have two different things here.

The first paragraph is salvation, which is through faith and not deeds.

The second part is about deeds and showing love and bearing fruit for God. This is different than salvation.

You need to review Romans 6:1-14 which reconciles our freedom in Christ and salvation.
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Old 06-25-2013, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
But my whole point is we as Christians are still required to follow Gods laws. There is no where in the entire bible that says, since Jesus died on the cross, you are free to do whatever and the commands of God mean nothing.

Even if you were to attempt to keep all 1050 commands in the NT, which you can since they are all do able, it just shows your Love for God that you want to keep his commands. And when i say commands, go back to my #1 post and im referring to moral commands, nothing ceremonial or sacrificial, since they were fulfilled and abolished.

You cant get saved by keeping commands or laws, but once your saved, they still serve as a great guideline on how we can live holy by what God demands instead of what we think. When we go by how we think we can Love God and Love one another, instead of how scriptures can we can, that is how we get 30,000+ denominations out there.
Jesus showed us that if you do the letter, you commit sin. Let me give you an example. Take the Speed Limit law.

Spirit of the Law: Reduce injury and death on the highway.
Letter of the Law: Obey established speed limits.

Notice that the Letter of the law is aid in teaching you and commiting you to the Spirit of the Law. But let's see what happens in a scenario.

Scenario: Your driving in your car down the highway when suddenly a tire falls of the back of a flat bed truck and begins rolling down the highway at an angle towards your lane. You know that if you suddenly stop the car behind you will rear-end you. You decide to speed up and break the speed limit in order that the tire roles between you and the car behind you such that nobody gets injured.

So what happened? You broke the Letter but you ESTABLISHED THE SPIRIT. So had you kept the letter you would have BROKEN the Spirit of the Law. The letter only existed because of the Spirit and for the Spirit. But what happened in the Old Testament is that LETTER became REVERED as the law and men were put to death as a result of that.
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