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Old 06-25-2013, 01:20 PM
 
4,684 posts, read 6,088,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Mark 7:18-19 - And He said to them, "Are you so lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him, because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?" (Thus He declared all foods clean.)




You have two different things here.

The first paragraph is salvation, which is through faith and not deeds.

The second part is about deeds and showing love and bearing fruit for God. This is different than salvation.

You need to review Romans 6:1-14 which reconciles our freedom in Christ and salvation.
I see what your saying, but you are taking that chapter( Mk 7 ) out of its context.

Mark 7:1-10

New King James Version (NKJV)

Defilement Comes from Within

7 Then the Pharisees and some of the scribes came together to Him, having come from Jerusalem. 2 Now when[a] they saw some of His disciples eat bread with defiled, that is, with unwashed hands, they found fault. 3 For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they wash their hands in a special way, holding the tradition of the elders. 4 When they come from the marketplace, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other things which they have received and hold, like the washing of cups, pitchers, copper vessels, and couches.
5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?”
6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’[b]

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men[c] —the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’;[d] and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’[e]


Verse 5 shows what the whole debate is over.

Then Jesus goes on to rebuke them about following the traditions of man (there is no verse in the bible that says you must wash your hands before eating), yet they put aside the commands of God.

So it would make no sense for Jesus to rebuke them and turn right around and do the same exact thing himself by putting aside the commands of God and telling them they can eat unclean foods. If Jesus or Paul told the Jews they can eat unclean foods, they would have been labeled as false teachers and no one would have listened to them. So when Jesus goes on in verse 19, all he is saying that eating with unwashed hands cant make anyone unclean. Read Matt 15 & Mark 7 back to back and it makes sense in its proper context.

But im not a person saying you cant eat pork, because Biblical clean foods(chicken, beef, etc) now a days have so much chemicals and steroids they are just as toxic. So it some down to eating naturally toxic (pork, shellfish) vs bio-toxic ( chicken, beef, etc)


Romans 6 starts out saying exactly what Ive been saying all along, just because we are under grace doesn't mean we are now free to sin as we please. We are not under the curse of the law for breaking it now, we are under grace in which we can repent.
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Old 06-25-2013, 03:43 PM
 
45,315 posts, read 26,834,676 times
Reputation: 23680
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
I see what your saying, but you are taking that chapter( Mk 7 ) out of its context.

Mark 7:1-10

New King James Version (NKJV)

Defilement Comes from Within

7 Then the Pharisees and some of the scribes came together to Him, having come from Jerusalem. 2 Now when[a] they saw some of His disciples eat bread with defiled, that is, with unwashed hands, they found fault. 3 For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they wash their hands in a special way, holding the tradition of the elders. 4 When they come from the marketplace, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other things which they have received and hold, like the washing of cups, pitchers, copper vessels, and couches.
5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?”
6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’[b]

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men[c] —the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’;[d] and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’[e]


Verse 5 shows what the whole debate is over.

Then Jesus goes on to rebuke them about following the traditions of man (there is no verse in the bible that says you must wash your hands before eating), yet they put aside the commands of God.

So it would make no sense for Jesus to rebuke them and turn right around and do the same exact thing himself by putting aside the commands of God and telling them they can eat unclean foods. If Jesus or Paul told the Jews they can eat unclean foods, they would have been labeled as false teachers and no one would have listened to them. So when Jesus goes on in verse 19, all he is saying that eating with unwashed hands cant make anyone unclean. Read Matt 15 & Mark 7 back to back and it makes sense in its proper context.

But im not a person saying you cant eat pork, because Biblical clean foods(chicken, beef, etc) now a days have so much chemicals and steroids they are just as toxic. So it some down to eating naturally toxic (pork, shellfish) vs bio-toxic ( chicken, beef, etc)


Romans 6 starts out saying exactly what Ive been saying all along, just because we are under grace doesn't mean we are now free to sin as we please. We are not under the curse of the law for breaking it now, we are under grace in which we can repent.

Regarding Mark - context change in verse 14.

Mark 7:14 - After He called the crowd to Him again, He began saying to them, "Listen to Me, all of you, and understand:

And whatever the context - the principle is clear. What goes into you does not defile you.


Regarding Romans - I agree - but there are no requirements. The reason for doing our best to remain sinless is not because of the Torah, but because of our unity with Christ.
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Old 06-25-2013, 03:57 PM
 
Location: New England
37,336 posts, read 28,087,833 times
Reputation: 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Regarding Mark - context change in verse 14.

Mark 7:14 - After He called the crowd to Him again, He began saying to them, "Listen to Me, all of you, and understand:

And whatever the context - the principle is clear. What goes into you does not defile you.


Regarding Romans - I agree - but there are no requirements. The reason for doing our best to remain sinless is not because of the Torah, but because of our unity with Christ.
I never ever think about remaining sinless. I set my affection and attention to this

May Christ through your faith [actually] dwell (settle down, abide, make His permanent home) in your hearts! May you be rooted deep in love and founded securely on love,
That you may have the power and be strong to apprehend and grasp with all the saints [God’s devoted people, the experience of that love] what is the breadth and length and height and depth [of it];
[That you may really come] to know [practically, [e]through experience for yourselves] the love of Christ, which far surpasses [f]mere knowledge [without experience]; that you may be filled [through all your being] [g]unto all the fullness of God [may have the richest measure of the divine Presence, and [h]become a body wholly filled and flooded with God Himself]!

And this

For the rest, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is worthy of reverence and is honorable and seemly, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely and lovable, whatever is kind and winsome and gracious, if there is any virtue and excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think on and weigh and take account of these things [fix your minds on them]
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