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Old 06-23-2013, 02:25 PM
 
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I have seen so many posts from a certain member making it seem like Christians are just lawless and others saying: that was for the Jews, Im not under the law, I only follow the NT, and the great excuses from unbelievers that Christians pick and choose what they want to follow and ignore other parts of the bible.

The New Covenant(New Testament),that Christians believe in and 1050 commands they follow are pulled right out of the Old Testament with additions and some deeper meaning to the commands from Jesus on how we are to love God and love one another.

When I refer to commands in Torah, I am nor referring to commands that:
-Applied to priests only
-Applied to women only so men cant do them
-Applied to men only so women cant do them
-Temple worship that were fulfilled and abolished since here in no physical temple
-Animal sacrifices that were fulfilled and abolished
-Burnt offerings that were fulfilled and abolished
-Other Ceremonial or Sacrificial commands that were fulfilled and abolished
-And commands that were specifically to the nation of Israel that they agreed to follow

The only arguments against Christians that could be made that they are not following is the Sabbath days and Dietary laws, otherwise they pretty much do everything else from the Torah.

Last edited by SAAN; 06-23-2013 at 02:27 PM.. Reason: Spell Checks
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Old 06-23-2013, 02:42 PM
 
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No. I only follow the Bible.
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Old 06-23-2013, 02:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
No. I only follow the Bible.
And the Torah is in the bible. Without that, you have no New Testament.
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Old 06-23-2013, 03:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
And the Torah is in the bible. Without that, you have no New Testament.
I don't care. I have all the truth and knowledge I need in the Bible.
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Old 06-23-2013, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,815,480 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
I have seen so many posts from a certain member making it seem like Christians are just lawless and others saying: that was for the Jews, Im not under the law, I only follow the NT, and the great excuses from unbelievers that Christians pick and choose what they want to follow and ignore other parts of the bible.

The New Covenant(New Testament),that Christians believe in and 1050 commands they follow are pulled right out of the Old Testament with additions and some deeper meaning to the commands from Jesus on how we are to love God and love one another.

When I refer to commands in Torah, I am nor referring to commands that:
-Applied to priests only
-Applied to women only so men cant do them
-Applied to men only so women cant do them
-Temple worship that were fulfilled and abolished since here in no physical temple
-Animal sacrifices that were fulfilled and abolished
-Burnt offerings that were fulfilled and abolished
-Other Ceremonial or Sacrificial commands that were fulfilled and abolished
-And commands that were specifically to the nation of Israel that they agreed to follow

The only arguments against Christians that could be made that they are not following is the Sabbath days and Dietary laws, otherwise they pretty much do everything else from the Torah.
Followers of the Christian faith are not obligated to follow any "laws" or "commands" as laws or commands except the foundational "command" of that "New Covenant." Insofar as Torah lays out practices by which Christians express that commandment to love, Christians could be said to "follow" them, and all such following is subject to the intent or spirit of those Torah practices as opposed to the letter. The example of Sabbath has been explained by the author of Hebrews as an expression of "entering into God's rest" and the particular day for the expression is "today." The intent is expressed every day and not by any particular practices on any specified day of the week.
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Old 06-23-2013, 03:24 PM
 
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Yes, but when Jesus said if you love me you will keep my commandments he said his commands were to Love God and Love one another. but he also said the entire OT is summed up as those 2 commands, meaning the laws are a sum of those commands, not a cancellation of those commands.

I am not saying you are to try to jusify yourself by laws, but its the laws we follow that show us how to love one another as well. How else would we have know to love God by not worshiping other Gods, making and following idols, and worshiping God alone with out the commandments telling us so. the same can be said in which it is laws of the bible that tell us how to love one another, if we do on to others as we would want them to do on to us, we will not steal, lie, kill, commit adultery because we don't want that done to us.

The laws in the Torah cant save your soul, but they( the laws outside of what I listed that still do apply) are good guidelines on how to live a holy life. Paul and all the apostles taught from the Torah and Jesus followed the law and taught from it as well. The law shows our need for a savior and when we accept Jesus we are still required to live holy, as faith without works is dead.
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Old 06-23-2013, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,815,480 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
Yes, but when Jesus said if you love me you will keep my commandments he said his commands were to Love God and Love one another. but he also said the entire OT is summed up as those 2 commands, meaning the laws are a sum of those commands, not a cancellation of those commands.
You seem to have the cart before the horse. I would say that the laws are intended to be an expression of those commands, and where there is no contradiction they still serve as guidelines subject to review as to whether they really do express those foundational commands in all cogent situations.
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:43 AM
 
45,252 posts, read 26,745,279 times
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Colossians 2:16-17 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Colossians 2:20-23 - If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!" (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)--in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.


Jesus declared all foods to be clean (Mark 7:15). He also told the parable of people who would do work in rescuing an ox on Sabbath.

For me, the Torah is obviously based on solid principles - but I am not Jewish. The penalties of breaking the Torah do not apply.
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 6,986,043 times
Reputation: 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
I have seen so many posts from a certain member making it seem like Christians are just lawless and others saying: that was for the Jews, Im not under the law, I only follow the NT, and the great excuses from unbelievers that Christians pick and choose what they want to follow and ignore other parts of the bible.

The New Covenant(New Testament),that Christians believe in and 1050 commands they follow are pulled right out of the Old Testament with additions and some deeper meaning to the commands from Jesus on how we are to love God and love one another.

When I refer to commands in Torah, I am nor referring to commands that:
-Applied to priests only
-Applied to women only so men cant do them
-Applied to men only so women cant do them
-Temple worship that were fulfilled and abolished since here in no physical temple
-Animal sacrifices that were fulfilled and abolished
-Burnt offerings that were fulfilled and abolished
-Other Ceremonial or Sacrificial commands that were fulfilled and abolished
-And commands that were specifically to the nation of Israel that they agreed to follow

The only arguments against Christians that could be made that they are not following is the Sabbath days and Dietary laws, otherwise they pretty much do everything else from the Torah.
How do you see us observing the Sabbath?
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:16 AM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,081,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
How do you see us observing the Sabbath?
Jesus IS our Sabbath. The Sabbath just means rest. So we rest in Jesus.

Hebrews 4 goes into that, along with Jesus statement:

"Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." (Matthew 11:28-30)
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