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If this is what you believe, you just don't know history, because that's not how it
happened. I recommend you read this book, which you can get for 99 cents.
Everyone on this thread should read it ( I already have, of course). A popular history of the reformation | Alibris Books
Concerning whether or not any Roman Catholics and Greek Orthodox parishoners
support SSM, of course some do. It's been a long number of generations since
any Catholics believed in the temporal domain of the Church or Christ the King,
those ages are passed away for the most part, largely due to the affects of Protestantism
and Masonic revolutions, and condemned political structures such as democracy and
freedom of religion - which the modernists in the Church made Vatican policy in the
Conciliar Church of Vatican II. There is a resistance in the Church but it is not as large.
Just for clarification, there is/was no such thing as "Masonic revolution."
The principle that I base my dealings with things and people I disagree with, regardless of what it is, is this:
Unless other people are being harmed or oppressed, that is having their civil liberties trampled upon, I do not see myself as being worthy to pass judgement or to enforce my own way of life upon them. If that person, group, or organization is not hurting anyone else with what they are doing or enforcing their ways on those who do not choose it, then I am not the one to fight with them regarding it, it is between them and God, if He has an issue with their actions and they do not come to that realization and repent they will answer to Him for it. I however, am a far cry from sinless and therefore cannot claim God's judgement with my own.
To apply this to same sex-marriage is really quite simple, I do not have to accept it, the Orthodox Church, or any church for that matter, need not accept it, but there is zero evidence that same-sex couples cause harm to anyone through carrying out their relationships and activities, there is also no evidence that these couples adopting children makes said children any more or less likely to be straight, gay, bi, or anything else, in fact there is increasing evidence to the contrary.
Therefore, in a secular country, where religion does not rule the government and state and sacramental marriage CAN in fact be separate things, I see no reason to violate my own rules and demand that my government trample on the civil liberties of others.
Only if the government tried to pressure or force a religious group which chose to reject it to perform and/or recognize such unions, would I fight it, then I would be among hopefully many, many protestors
Oh my gosh! Why do you keep beating me to everything I want to say!
Oh my gosh! Why do you keep beating me to everything I want to say!
Apparently I said before, we see eye to eye on quite a lot
I never could fathom where all the condecention, hate, and bullying homosexuals, bisexuals, and transgendered people sometimes face from Christian groups was coming from. That's not what the bible teaches, certainly not what Christ taught... and if any of that hate came from Catholic or fellow Orthodox Christians I'd be even more surprised, because one of the things that gets emphasized the most among us Orthodox is humility and not passing judgement that belongs only to God.
It happened with another issue entirely and that whole incident belongs in another tread but until recently I never understood where people got the idea that just because the government allowed something that would automatically lead them to force it upon those who disagreed with it on religious grounds. Unfortunately now I do understand where that fear is coming from and I don't really trust the federal government to leave the churches alone an *any* moral issue in which the religious and secular standards fail to line up, not anymore...
I fully support equality. I think they should receive exactly the same rights as anyone else, nothing more, nothing less. You don't want anyone thinking you're a perverted, immoral freak? Don't go telling everyone you meet. Don't go wearing a feather boa and walking in a "PRIDE" parade.
My, my, my. The stereotypes are flying off the shelf today, no?
Everyone in my life knows I'm gay, and they don't think I'm an "perverted, immoral freak". I think that term would be better suited for the likes of Josh Duggar
I wonder what the percentage of all christians that agree 100% with their particular church? Wonder why those people don't search out a different church? Because it is rare to agree 100% of any denomination. This isn't just a "Catholic" thing. I live in the South and drinking is supposed to be forbidden in most of the Baptist churches around here. I have a LOT of Baptist friends. Every one of them drinks.
Yes the Baptist church certainly don't encourage drinking. In addition according to polls a majority of protestants support gay marriage, however a higher percentage of Catholics support gay marriage.
For me I more concerned about what God thinks than what people in the church thinks about gay marriage. .
For me I more concerned about what God thinks than what people in the church thinks about gay marriage. .
That about sums it up... God says that we are not supposed to judge, God says we are not supposed to hate, God also says however that the only marriage that can be concecrated before him is that between a believing man and a believing woman... there you have it. I could care less if people in the churches don't understand that. Sometimes I just want to type every scripture I'm referring to here and pin them up on the bullitan board in the narthex with all the hateful comments I hear on this topic, particularly from the older parishioners
That about sums it up... God says that we are not supposed to judge, God says we are not supposed to hate, God also says however that the only marriage that can be concecrated before him is that between a believing man and a believing woman... there you have it. I could care less if people in the churches don't understand that. Sometimes I just want to type every scripture I'm referring to here and pin them up on the bullitan board in the narthex with all the hateful comments I hear on this topic, particularly from the older parishioners
I missed the reference, can you supply it for the bolded??
"22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. 23 The man said, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman, ' for she was taken out of man." 24For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh." Genesis 2:22-24
and
"Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?" 1Corinthians 6:14
"22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. 23 The man said, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman, ' for she was taken out of man." 24For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh." Genesis 2:22-24
and
"Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?" 1Corinthians 6:14
Too clear for some.
Yes what people do under man's rule is between them and God. Not them and anyone else. I can disapprove but that does not give me the right to insult, belittle, or deny liberties the men ruling allow.
Now God will judge them and me.
He will also judge the rulers and those who vote them into office.
Just get home from intergalactic travel? LGBT get the same rights as everyone else gets, especialy the ones that have been denied to them both socially and institutionally.. What we are talking about is a contrast with past practice.
No rights are denied. Unless, of course, you redefine or hijack words. I want some special rights because I am German, but they won't give it to me either.
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