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It doesn't matter was exactly the thorn was. It was given to him to keep him from exalting himself. He prayed to God to take it away. God chose to allow the thorn to remain.
That he wouldn't become prideful or conceited is apparent, it's the adversary of the flesh.
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Originally Posted by DRob4JC
No - the prayer was that he asked the Lord to remove the thorn in the flesh. God allowed the thorn to remain.
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Originally Posted by Jerwade
And what was that thorn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
It doesn't matter what exactly the thorn was. It was given to him to keep him from exalting himself.
He prayed to God to take it away. God chose to allow the thorn to remain.
So, what keeps Spiritual Pride or that of exalting oneself in check?
So, what keeps Spiritual Pride or that of exalting oneself in check?
For Paul, whatever the thorn was that made him weak, God used to keep him in check. Again - he did not want whatever the thorn was and prayed for its removal.
Going somewhere with this? I'm about to expire for the night.
For Paul, whatever the thorn was that made him weak, God used it to keep him in check.
Again - he did not want whatever the thorn was and prayed for its removal.
Going somewhere with this? I'm about to expire for the night.
Perhaps, we will continue this later, because it does matter:
Paul had no illusions that any of us will live morally perfect lives. So, what is your thorn in the flesh?
What is the one thing that you can point out in your life, which you have struggled with; and just can’t seem to overcome?
2 Corinthians 12:7-10 - Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me--to keep me from exalting myself! Concerning this I implored the Lord three times that it might leave me. And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me. Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ's sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong.
There's another example of prayer denied - three of them. Yet Paul took that answer without it damaging His faith in God. The Father decides how prayer is answered.
You are using one verse of scripture that you do not understand to deny all that Jesus taught about receiving in prayer. Jesus never taught praying in faith was dependent upon if it be thy will( the excuse Christians use for having no faith to receive what they have petitioned God for).
Jesus taught say to the mountain be thou removed and it will be done. He taught shameless audacity when asking for bread in Luke 15. He taught ask whatever you will and it will be done unto you. He said ask and it will be given, seek and you will find knock and the door will be opened. He taught whatever you ask in my name it will be done for you. He taught have faith in God. He taught everything is possible for the one who believes. Scripture is full of accounts of men petitioning God and without fail, God coming through for them. The scripture is also full of instruction upon the mechanics of faith.
It might sound super spiritual to say if it be thy will, but I'm telling you it is not. It's a cloak we think hides our unbelief but it doesn't,our words declare what we really believe.
I will remind you again. The prodigal received all is inheritance when he asked for it, and his brother was told all that I have is mine......... Something the prodigal left town not knowing. You cannot exhaust the supply of God. Now if you believe in the sky god that continually needs appeasement, you will never have faith to see your desires met.
Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them
I think that those who expect God to answer prayer need to have a more realistic viewpoint.
Let's take a common one....Pray that you get that Job. OK, out of all the applicants, do you think that you would be the only one that prayed to get it?? not likely. So why should their prayers go unanswered while you get the job or vice versa. Maybe you didn't kneel and they did, or they prayed to a different god. Maybe they even gave more to the poor and hungry.
Another goal for prayer would be to extend the life of a dying person. Maybe they are tired of pain and suffering. Why should your prayer be answered and theirs denied?
Two men will pray for riches. One sits back and waits. The other gets out and works. Which is more likely to see his prayer answered?
Just because YOU have faith, that doesn't mean that what you pray for is the best thing for everyone. This world doesn't revolve around just you.
This. Also, perhaps your personal viewpoint is taken into account, in terms of knowing whether the prayer would actually be good for you or not.
For the grind who doesn't have a family, doesn't want a family, and wouldn't appreciate one anyway if a prayer favored that instead of the promotion he was asking for, he'll get his wish. Another guy, who is really a romantic at heart, and prays for the same thing will likely not have the prayer answered, but if they're observant, will see exactly the sort of sucky wish that prayer is secondhand.
Praying for a gf (you're lonely after all), if you're the type of person who is best standing on their own path, might get you your wish. But every single one you get will try to control/change you, until you either change your ways and become a bit more dependent, or decide to be more independent and do without them. The prayer represents the heart of the prayee, since it basically comes out of you.
Perhaps, we will continue this later, because it does matter:
Paul had no illusions that any of us will live morally perfect lives. So, what is your thorn in the flesh?
What is the one thing that you can point out in your life, which you have struggled with; and just can’t seem to overcome?
"May the eyes of your heart be Enlightened."
My personal life is not the issue. I am not saying that what you posted is necessarily incorrect.
But with regards to the discussion at hand - I am looking at the principle of God answering prayer. Pcamps seems to think we can get whatever we want if you pray and have the faith. That is not the case. Paul in this case wanted the thorn (whatever it was) removed, and God denied his request. This should not be difficult to grasp unless you are attempting to twist it into some other doctrine.
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