Eternal Salvation; Through Faith Alone, or by Faith plus works? (disciples, Holy Spirit)
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Doesn't John 6 v 28 say ' work the works of God '?
Doesn't verse 29 say ' the work of God ' ?
'Labor not for food that perishes' meaning labor not for literal food but labor for spiritual food or spiritual works.
Didn't Jesus say at John 5 v 17 that his Father still works and Jesus works ?
The works of the neighborly good Samaritan were not necessarily 'spiritual works' but Jesus using that illustration to show we should all widen out in love for others.
If one has been motivated by Godly love then one will do God's will. Jesus actively did God's will.
[ Luke 4 v 43; 22 v 42; Mark 14 v 26 B; Matt. 26 v 39; John 4 v 34; 5 v 30; 6 v 38 ]
The demons do not exercise their faith by doing God's will even though the demons believe [ James 2 v 19 ]
So, their faith is dead faith because they have no spiritual works. [James 2 v 26 ]
True faith that is ' saved by God's undeserved grace ' involves more than possessing or believing something is true.
The motivation of the heart [ seat of motivation ] is involved. What does Romans 10 vs 10 to 15 mean ?
Doesn't James 2 v 26 B say..... faith without works is dead ?
Didn't Jesus commission his followers to spread the 'good news of God's kingdom' on a global international scale at Matthew 24 v 14; Acts 1 v 8 ? That 'spiritual work' is proclaimed earth wide because of faith [exercising one's beliefs ] That work of course would be in vain if it were not for Jesus shed blood [ 1st John 1 v 7 ].
No one can earn or buy salvation because that is only through Jesus' ransom [ Matthew 20 v 28 ]
However, we can show appreciation for Jesus' ransom by doing spiritual works as Jesus and his first-century followers did.
Understand that I am focusing on the fact that salvation is by grace through faith, and not by works. The topic of this thread was never about the believer's spiritual life after salvation.
As I explained at the bottom of post # 87, what Jesus meant in John 6:27-29 was that the only work of God was to believe on Him in contrast to the works which the crowd to whom He spoke thought they could do to earn their salvation. Jesus was simply saying that the only thing necessary for eternal salvation was to believe on Him.
I realize that not everyone reads all of my posts, but I have already explained what James meant.
And I have repeatedly stated that while salvation is by grace through faith, and not by works, God expects the believer to pick up his cross and follow Jesus. But picking up your cross belongs to the spiritual life after salvation. It is not a requirement for salvation.
What the early church believed is not really the issue, as the issue is what the Bible says. However, in one of the earliest writings outside of the New Testament books themselves, Clement of Rome (died c. 99-101 AD.) wrote the following in his Letter to the Corinthians.
20. And we also, having been called by the same will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, neither by our own wisdom, or knowledge, or piety, or the works which we have done in the holiness of our hearts: 21]. But by that faith by which God Almighty has justified all men from the beginning; to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen. [Letter to the Corinthians, Chapter 14:20-21] First Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians (Part 2)
What Clement of Rome wrote agrees of course with what the Bible reveals to be true and with what I have been saying. And what I have been saying is that eternal salvation is by grace through faith and not by works.
Last edited by Michael Way; 07-22-2013 at 07:09 PM..
Excellent analysis . . . but I fear it will be lost on those indoctrinated into the current and dominant anti-Christ apostasy. The true irony is that the early warnings not to accept the false teachings that were proliferating at the time were ignored and the dominant apostate theology won out. So now when the warnings are read . . . they are used to protect that existing false Gospel instead.
Well, I have heard from Christians time and time again that good needs are not necessary for getting into heaven so therefore "A waste of time we Christians do not pursue"
Which is why Christianity has, for the most part, become a rather worthless religion.
Or I am told "Well, helping the people with care boxes is great"...if )as one local Baptist told me "IF you are trying to create Utopia here on earth, which will only happen when Jesus comes back. "
This type of social loafing, the mentality of "Here let me sit here and diddle my digit until Jesus comes back and fixes everything" is an example of civic irresponsibility and personally immature as well. So in this case , YES Christianity is not valid.
Now that is not to say, as Dew Drop Inn mentioned that people should be working and praying at the same time. My point is the numerous selfish Christians who loaf rather than help. When I was a Christian, and that was back when I joined a community ecumenical charity, I volunteered in a food pantry once a week. I was the only one from my church who helped. Most people had the attitude of "I am not giving food to some poor person...let them starve for all I care" Such social irresponsibility while rampant is not valid.
................
Just another of the countless threads on this forum where the Universalist is allowed to put forth a straw-man and use it to attack Christians. It seems every one on earth come here and the 2 or three of them with all their user names post the same thing over and over making themselves feel better.
Just another of the countless threads on this forum where the Universalist is allowed to put forth a straw-man and use it to attack Christians. It seems every one on earth come here and the 2 or three of them with all their user names post the same thing over and over making themselves feel better.
Not a "universalist" post, it's a report of one person's experience with talking to mainstream nominal Christians, which demonstrates the result of the OP question teaching of faith alone. My response in that thread was:
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
Thank you for your input. Many Christians don't really believe that this attitude is really a large part of Christianity today and wonder why I stress so much that Jesus was looking to have a people set apart "eager to do good deeds." This is currently being discussed in the Christianity Forum where I have more than once pointed out that if a nominal Christian is NOT "eager to do good works" (Titus 2:14 among others) then they seriously need to examine the nature of their commitment because it is not what Christ was looking for.
The simple fact is that people use the doctrine to claim righteousness while denying everything that Jesus was about.
This is a reminder that this thread is not about whether the believer should have good works after salvation, and it is not about whether a believer without good works was ever saved in the first place.
The only topic of this thread is whether eternal salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone, or whether works must be added to faith in order to be saved.
The Bible is clear and specifically states that salvation is by faith alone, and not by works.
1.) Titus 3:5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
2.) Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9]not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
3.) Romans 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
Ephesians 2:8 says that salvation is by grace. Romans 11:6 says that if it is by grace it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. If works were a requirement for eternal salvation then grace would not be grace. But salvation IS by grace and therefore works can play no part in salvation. Or in maintaining salvation.
Works are a part of the spiritual life after salvation. They are not a requirement for salvation.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
And while what the early church believed is not really the issue, as the issue is what the Bible says, in one of the earliest writings outside of the New Testament books themselves, Clement of Rome (died c. 99-101 AD.) wrote the following in his Letter to the Corinthians.
20. And we also, having been called by the same will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, neither by our own wisdom, or knowledge, or piety, or the works which we have done in the holiness of our hearts: 21]. But by that faith by which God Almighty has justified all men from the beginning; to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen. [Letter to the Corinthians, Chapter 14:20-21] First Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians (Part 2)
What Clement of Rome wrote agrees of course with what the Bible reveals to be true and with what I have been saying. And what I have been saying is that eternal salvation is by grace through faith and not by works.
Faith sanctifies the work to god and allows work to be good for the soul. If theres no work or interest in contributing theres nothing to sanctify the existence but leisure for the taker. So they go hand in hand in my opinion, retired would be a little different but people do get involved in the community in different ways if possible, which would be work. Looking for work or looking to contributing even if unsuccessful is also work. Even if its just getting through the day or looking after your own needs its still work, were programmed for work..God made the person so the bible itself would pretty much suggest god cannot save the person, without their help. I'm not so sure faith can fill the whole gap complete within itself as a means, of absolute and only exchange. There is a thing called presumptuousness in gods mercy.
Last edited by macpherson; 07-23-2013 at 03:23 PM..
Salvation is a one time event that happens quickly. There is no works involved in that event what so ever. Salvation results in works after the event but works do not produce the event of salvation. It's like lightening and thunder. Thunder does not produce the lightening. Lightening produces the thunder.
The Christian in my understanding is always interested in becoming more Christian and never really finish's life or the idea of salvation as a whole concept. This enables humility a virtue and allows an active conscience in the interior life and relationship with God, Jesus Holy Spirit Mary the saints and so on toward perfection or what would be somewhat the goal, in becoming more Christian, together including the challenges in life. Maybe a huge salvation event is very significant for a person, but I have no idea what a massive change from non believer to believer would be, because Ive always believed, maybe its a newness thats creating these sharp idea's. I don't know and not sure if I understand.
Last edited by macpherson; 07-23-2013 at 03:48 PM..
The Christian in my understanding is always interested in becoming more Christian and never really finish's life or the idea of salvation as a whole concept. This enables humility a virtue and allows an active conscience in the interior life and relationship with God, Jesus Holy Spirit Mary the saints and so on toward perfection or what would be somewhat the goal, in becoming more Christian.
Salvation is not earned. We Christians want to serve God and by so doing we do many good works and are always trying to become more Christ like. You can never become more "Christian" for your works are not what results in salvation or becoming a Christian. They are not related in that way.
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Amen
