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I decided to make a separate thread of this because many of the discussions in this area come down to whether or not people believe in the content of the Bible. By content, I mean that the accounts described actually took place. They are not myths and parables (unless specifically stated) that are written to make some abstract point.
People, who say they are Christians, simply do not believe in the Bible as it written. It's as though they are at a cafeteria picking the doctrines they like, and rejecting what they don't like with the accompanying excuses (biblical characters are ignorant savages, goes against human wisdom, goes against nature, goes against God's love, etc.). Although they say they believe in Christ - they don't believe in the content provided to us by the Father through the Holy Spirit.
So I was asked for my basis in believing the Holy Spirit today would not contradict the content of the Bible.
So in response I asked him how does a son believe in His father. Now he chose not to answer, even though he is fully capable.
I asked the question because it leads to my basis for believing the Bible. A son generally does not ask his father to give written proof of the father's life before the son loves him. The son loves because the father loves him first (1 John 4:19). The father feeds him, holds him, teaches him to walk, etc. - and the son trusts everything the father does by the father's actions towards the son.
We are never told to prove the existence of the events in the Bible. Never. That is not how Christianity operates. Christianity operates on faith - not on proof.
Hebrews 11:6 - And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.
I have been walking with the Lord for 20 years. Through this relationship, He has taken care of me - supplied my needs, disciplined me when it was necessary, comforted me when times where tough, sent His Son to die for me and provided the Holy Spirit to me (through faith) when He was ready for me.
It is on THIS BASIS that I believe in what God provided through the Holy Spirit concerning the contents of the Bible. It is NOT because I supply better verses, or my reasoning is better than someone else's reasoning. It is like a son believing in his father.
I don't need to go tit for tat, pitting verses against each other, trying to prove things that are unprovable to others whose relationship with God is questionnable. I have faith in what was written, and in what God says He did, and what He will do.
God said He created the earth. I believe it.
God said the Red Sea was parted. I believe it.
God said some will be eternally punished. I believe it.
Not because I can prove it... but because of the faith and trust I have in what the Father provided - both through the Holy Spirit in what the original authors wrote, and what the Spirit inspired translators translated.
Believing by faith is OK as long as you do not get faith confused with the objective reality.
With faith on your side it is quite possible to understand that the existence of God cannot be proven, but the faith remains. Nothing wrong with that. You remind me of the Christian Agnostics.
Juries in a court make decisions based on evidence provided and can make sound judgments as to what the truth actually is, even though the jury is not composed of eyewitnesses. Christians today can make the same kind of judgments in regard to studying the Bible, that is whether it is true or not. There are many reasons to believe in the accuracy of the Biblical record. I have detailed this in other posts. Christian faith is not based on blind faith, but on the word of God which has proven to be accurate as judged by many millions of people over the centuries. Faith is also trust that God will fulfill all the promises He has made in the Bible.
Thank you for sharing your faith in our God and Savior Jesus Christ.
Praying His many blessings be upon you for always sharing your love for Him by trusting and standing strong through the mighty power and wisdom of His Spirit and constantly voicing His truth as He leads you for all the world to hear, amen !!
We are never told to prove the existence of the events in the Bible. Never. That is not how Christianity operates. Christianity operates on faith - not on proof.
Hebrews 11:6 - And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.
I have been walking with the Lord for 20 years. Through this relationship, He has taken care of me - supplied my needs, disciplined me when it was necessary, comforted me when times where tough, sent His Son to die for me and provided the Holy Spirit to me (through faith) when He was ready for me.
It is on THIS BASIS that I believe in what God provided through the Holy Spirit concerning the contents of the Bible. It is NOT because I supply better verses, or my reasoning is better than someone else's reasoning. It is like a son believing in his father.
I don't need to go tit for tat, pitting verses against each other, trying to prove things that are unprovable to others whose relationship with God is questionnable. I have faith in what was written, and in what God says He did, and what He will do.
God said He created the earth. I believe it.
God said the Red Sea was parted. I believe it.
God said some will be eternally punished. I believe it.
Not because I can prove it... but because of the faith and trust I have in what the Father provided - both through the Holy Spirit in what the original authors wrote, and what the Spirit inspired translators translated.
It is very much how I see it. It is a simple question which one should ask of themselves: are the ways of the world fulfilling to you? The world is evidence, evidence, evidience; proof, proof, proof. These are definitley things which one should not entirely throw out the window as, even though those who believe are no longer under the complete dominion of the spirit of the world, nevertheless, they unfortunately must exist in it as it is what God commands of them and is how this world operates. But it is not the way of the Spirit. As it is written (I'm not bliblically literate enough to provide exact verses, haven't even made my way entirely through His word yet), the ways of the world is of much wisdom and preaching is of much foolishness. If it is the respect of the world someone wants they probably will not gain it very much by being a follower of Christ.
I have come to the understanding from my reading of Scripture thus far that God will allow us to understand that part of His word that he wants us to understand; the rest will remain indecipherable until He wants it to be known to us.
To me, belief is complete submission to the power of God over our lives and for some of us (perhaps a good percentage), it is difficult to do because we want to have that control, we want to be seen as dignified, not some mere sheep; we want respect, we want our human dignity. To be under God, all that must be given up and we must realize the despicable waste that flesh is and it is the soul, the world which we cannot see or know of any part of except by the miracle of faith that is the only thing which should be of a concern to us.
Yet, beliefs like that are considered much along the lines of brainwashing by the doctrines of the society; thus they are not popular and are (and perhaps with good reason, for some who perhaps are not able to extract the physical from the spiritual, beliefs such as those will become harmful in their lives by the practice of deceitful people, especially those who disguise themselves as people of God) seen by many as negative.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
People, who say they are Christians, simply do not believe in the Bible as it written. It's as though they are at a cafeteria picking the doctrines they like, and rejecting what they don't like with the accompanying excuses (biblical characters are ignorant savages, goes against human wisdom, goes against nature, goes against God's love, etc.). Although they say they believe in Christ - they don't believe in the content provided to us by the Father through the Holy Spirit.
I don't understand it: How can someone believe in Christ but not believe in the Bible? I remember there was a thread on this forum some weeks or months ago deriding people for even reading the Bible, saying that it is harmful and something along the lines of a desecration to God--that people worship the Bible instead of God. I don't see anything wrong with people worshiping the Bible as my understanding is that Christ is the Word incarnate, the Word made flesh; so in a sense, He is Scripture so I don't see how it can be against His commandments as He commands us to worship Him to worship His Word in the sense that we are worshipping God as the Word Incarnate. But then, that's from the Bible, so it must not be right. I just don't get what they're basing their ideas from of God if it is not based on the Bible. To me, basing it off anything else would be receiving instruction from the creation and not the Creator.
Jesus' basis for believing the Scriptures as religious truth [ John 17 v 17] was that Jesus based his faith and beliefs by his logical reasoning on the already existing Hebrew OT Scriptures, and Jesus often prefaced his statements with the words, "it is written". Referring to the already written down words of the Hebrew Scriptures.
Through the pages of Scripture we can see that no matter what circumstance or trial Jesus faced his God took care of him even to the point of resurrecting Jesus.- Acts 13 vs 30,37; 2 vs 27,31,32.
No other religious book has the internal harmony between its many writers over the centuries as the Bible does with its corresponding or parallel reference passages and verses that are along the same line of thought .
There is no law against applying the aspects of the fruit of God's spirit- Galatians 5 vs 22,23. In other words, no one gets arrested for applying or cultivating them in one's life. Living by applying God's standards and principles always ends up in blessings and benefits.
The Bible's theme [ God's kingdom 'thy kingdom come' ] is consistent throughout the Bible, and being the theme message of Jesus teachings. - Luke 4 v 43; Acts 1 v 9; Matthew 24 v 14.
You ask me how I know there is a creator. I point to the creation!
Many great comments so far.
Yes, the ^ above ^ is also a great comment because as Hebrews 3 v 4 mentions that every house is built by someone.
If we are lost in the woods and come across a cabin we do not assume the cabin appeared on its own.
We know the cabin had a builder. If we reason the natural law of 'cause and effect' we can observe the cabin had design built into it. We can also observe earth has design built into it.
One person was told how silly that a BIG oak tree had little acorns and a small vine had BIG mellons on it.
The other person answered would you want to sit under an oak tree that had BIG watermellons hanging on it ?
So, yes 'creation' is a great comment.- Revelation 4 v 11.
It would be impossible to prove Lord Jesus to people who do not believe , as Lord Jesus spirit is allusive to all who do not believe and will not repent ....... Lord Jesus does prove to people who do come and believe and do Not doubt , still there are many fallen church were Lord Jesus will not show Himself to people who go there , as the tolerances against faith in God are compromised by higher critics of salvation , ..and Jesus will honor the authority of the fallen church before the people who attend the same church ............So if no one knows Jesus in your church or has no fruit of the spirit or no gifts of the spirit then Jesus cannot prove himself there......... Then there are churches were Jesus Spirit does baptize the followers and the bible comes alive in each of these people who will have a witness of Lord Jesus in their lives to prove Jesus that the bible is indeed what Lord Jesus said it would be , and salvation of the early church is and can happen today like it did in those days ....... To show Lord Jesus to others they will have to go to miracle meetings and experience the healing and deliverances is the only proof to the unbeliever of the Messiah calling through Lord Jesus
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