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Old 08-18-2013, 01:04 PM
Status: "There is more to reality than we know." (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: El Paso, TX
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The Will of the Father and the eternal security of the believer is seen in the following passages.


1.) Who will enter into the kingdom of heaven? Matthew 7:21 tells us.
Matthew 7:21 ''Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

2.) What then is the will of the Father? John 6:40 tells us.
John 6:40 ''For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes on Him may have [Present Tense - they have it now] eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.''

3.) What must be done to do the work of the Father? John 6:27-29 tells us.
John 6:27 "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal." 28] Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works [erga; Plural - works] of God?" 29] Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work [ergon;Singular- one work] of God, that you believe on Him whom He has sent."

The will of the Father is to believe on the Son. The work of God is to believe on the Son.

When Jesus said not to work for the food that perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, He was asked by the crowd what those plural works were that they might be saved. But Jesus corrected the crowd by telling them that there was but one singular work by which they could be saved. And that one singular work was to believe on Him. This is in contrast to 'works'. One singular non-meritorious work for which you can take no credit - believe on Him.

John 6:39-40 show the believer's eternal security.
John 6:39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40] ''For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes on Him may have [Present Tense-they have it now] eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.''
The believer's eternal security is seen by the fact that the Father's will is that those whom He has given to Jesus not be lost, but raised up on the last day. That everyone who believes on Jesus will have eternal life and that Jesus will raise him up on the last day.


Having once come to the Father through Christ, once having believed on Christ, the believer is eternally secure because it is the Father's will that Jesus not lose him. And Jesus will do the will of the Father and not lose any whom the Father gave to Him, and will raise them up on the last day.

John 6:39-40 strongly affirms the eternal security of the believer.


Of John 6:38-40 the Bible Knowledge Commentary says:
6:38-39. Jesus then repeated His claim about His heavenly origin. The reason He came down from heaven was to do the will of the Father who sent Him. The Father's will is that those whom He gives to the Son will not suffer a single loss and all will be raised to life in the resurrection (cf. vv. 40, 44, 54). This passage is strong in affirming the eternal security of the believer.

6:40. This verse repeats and reinforces the ideas of the previous verses. One who looks and believes on Jesus for salvation has his destiny secure. The divine decree has insured it (cf. Rom. 8:28-30). He has eternal life (John 6:47, 50-51, 54, 58) and will be raised at the last day (cf. vv.39, 44, 54). [The Bible Knowledge Commentary, New Testament, An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty, p. 296]
If you believe that Jesus will do the will of the Father and not lose any who have believed on Him, then why would you doubt the believer's eternal security?

And yet, detractors who do not believe in the eternal security of the believer will make claims of cherry-picking, and of ignoring other verses which they think say that the believer's eternal salvation can be lost, but what can be more clear and direct than the Father's will that Jesus lose none of those who have believed on Him?

Legalists will continue to insist that you must work for your salvation, or add works to your faith for salvation, but that is refuted by Jesus Himself in John 6:27-29.

They will say that if you sin you can lose your salvation, but that ignores the fact that believer's do sin, and yet it is God's will that Jesus lose none whom the Father has given Him.

They will say that if you lose your faith you will lose your salvation. But again, that ignores the fact that Jesus will do the will of the Father and not lose any whom the Father has given to Him.


I do not intend to get into a long debate on this since I did that on another thread >>> The Doctrine of Eternal Security I posted the above passages for those who have ears to hear and can be objective.


And to head off claims that I am promoting a lazy spiritual life, or that I am promoting a sinful life;

The believer is commanded to pick up his cross and follow Jesus.
Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny [Imperative - it's a command] himself, and take up [Imperative - it's a command] his cross and follow [Imperative - it's a command] Me.
But whether you do pick up your cross and follow Jesus, or whether you don't, once you have believed on Christ, Jesus will not lose you, but will obey the Father's will. The believer has eternal life right now, at the present moment, and cannot lose it. Eternal life is a free gift and the calling of God and His gifts are irrevocable. God will not revoke the free gift of eternal life He has given to those who believe on Christ.

Rom. 5:15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. 16] The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.

Rom. 11:29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Rom. 8:30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
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Old 08-18-2013, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
10,688 posts, read 6,887,863 times
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Default understanding Scripture in light of ALL OTHER Scripture

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The Will of the Father and the eternal security of the believer is seen in the following passages.


1.) Who will enter into the kingdom of heaven? Matthew 7:21 tells us.
Matthew 7:21 ''Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
2.) What then is the will of the Father? John 6:40 tells us.
John 6:40 ''For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes on Him may have [Present Tense - they have it now] eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.''
3.) What must be done to do the work of the Father? John 6:27-29 tells us.
John 6:27 "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal." 28] Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works [erga; Plural - works] of God?" 29] Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work [ergon;Singular- one work] of God, that you believe on Him whom He has sent."
The will of the Father is to believe on the Son. The work of God is to believe on the Son.

When Jesus said not to work for the food that perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, He was asked by the crowd what those plural works were that they might be saved. But Jesus corrected the crowd by telling them that there was but one singular work by which they could be saved. And that one singular work was to believe on Him. This is in contrast to 'works'. One singular non-meritorious work for which you can take no credit - believe on Him.

John 6:39-40 show the believer's eternal security.
John 6:39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40] ''For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes on Him may have [Present Tense-they have it now] eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.''
The believer's eternal security is seen by the fact that the Father's will is that those whom He has given to Jesus not be lost, but raised up on the last day. That everyone who believes on Jesus will have eternal life and that Jesus will raise him up on the last day.


Having once come to the Father through Christ, once having believed on Christ, the believer is eternally secure because it is the Father's will that Jesus not lose him. And Jesus will do the will of the Father and not lose any whom the Father gave to Him, and will raise them up on the last day.

John 6:39-40 strongly affirms the eternal security of the believer.


Of John 6:38-40 the Bible Knowledge Commentary says:
6:38-39. Jesus then repeated His claim about His heavenly origin. The reason He came down from heaven was to do the will of the Father who sent Him. The Father's will is that those whom He gives to the Son will not suffer a single loss and all will be raised to life in the resurrection (cf. vv. 40, 44, 54). This passage is strong in affirming the eternal security of the believer.

6:40. This verse repeats and reinforces the ideas of the previous verses. One who looks and believes on Jesus for salvation has his destiny secure. The divine decree has insured it (cf. Rom. 8:28-30). He has eternal life (John 6:47, 50-51, 54, 58) and will be raised at the last day (cf. vv.39, 44, 54). [The Bible Knowledge Commentary, New Testament, An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty, p. 296]
If you believe that Jesus will do the will of the Father and not lose any who have believed on Him, then why would you doubt the believer's eternal security?

And yet, detractors who do not believe in the eternal security of the believer will make claims of cherry-picking, and of ignoring other verses which they think say that the believer's eternal salvation can be lost, but what can be more clear and direct than the Father's will that Jesus lose none of those who have believed on Him?

Legalists will continue to insist that you must work for your salvation, or add works to your faith for salvation, but that is refuted by Jesus Himself in John 6:27-29.

They will say that if you sin you can lose your salvation, but that ignores the fact that believer's do sin, and yet it is God's will that Jesus lose none whom the Father has given Him.

They will say that if you lose your faith you will lose your salvation. But again, that ignores the fact that Jesus will do the will of the Father and not lose any whom the Father has given to Him.


I do not intend to get into a long debate on this since I did that on another thread >>> www.city-data.com/forum/christianity/1927567-doctrine-eternal-security.html I posted the above passages for those who have ears to hear and can be objective.


And to head off claims that I am promoting a lazy spiritual life, or that I am promoting a sinful life;

The believer is commanded to pick up his cross and follow Jesus.
Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny [Imperative - it's a command] himself, and take up [Imperative - it's a command] his cross and follow [Imperative - it's a command] Me.
But whether you do pick up your cross and follow Jesus, or whether you don't, once you have believed on Christ, Jesus will not lose you, but will obey the Father's will. The believer has eternal life right now, at the present moment, and cannot lose it. Eternal life is a free gift and the calling of God and His gifts are irrevocable. God will not revoke the free gift of eternal life He has given to those who believe on Christ.

Rom. 5:15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. 16] The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.

Rom. 11:29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Rom. 8:30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
That ye believe on him whom he (the Father) sent; or, hath sent. Ἵνα πιστεύητε, here preferred by the R.T. to πιστεύσητε (see John 13:19), marks the simple fact and continuous act of believing with the effort tending to such result; while the aorist would have pointed to one definite act of faith (see Westcott).. To "believe on him," to habitually entrust one's self to the power and grace of Christ, to make a full moral surrender of the soul to the Lord, includes in itself all other work, and is in itself the great work of God. "It is the Christian answer to the Jewish question" (Thoma). "Faith is the life of works, works the necessity of faith" (Westcott). "Faith is the highest kind of work, for by it man gives himself to God, and a free being can do nothing greater than give himself: James opposes (sic) work to a faith which would be nothing but intellectual belief. Paul opposes(sic--I think the writer meant PROposes in both instances) faith, active faith, to works of mere observance.
Pulpit Bible Commentary John 6:29

Two sides of the same coin.
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Old 08-18-2013, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 9,642,352 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
Paul opposes(sic--I think the writer meant PROposes in both instances) faith, active faith, to works of mere observance.
[/b]Pulpit Bible Commentary John 6:29
No, he is saying that active faith is the opposite of (he opposes it to) works of mere observance, and I might add that it is the opposite of intellectual assent without commitment.
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Old 08-18-2013, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Go West young man...
409 posts, read 892,721 times
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Revelation chapters 1 through 3 are of interest...

Revelation 3:1,2 <to those in Sardis> These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

Revelation 3:5 <again to those in Sardis> "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

Notice that a name ( a person) can be blotted out of the book of life.

Revelation 3:15,16 <to those in Laodicea>... "I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

It appears the Laodiceans' works were half hearted and minimal...and they would be spewed or vomited out of his mouth. Notice that it wasn't about whether or not they professed belief in Christ but because of their works/deeds they could lose out on eternal life.
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Old 08-18-2013, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
10,688 posts, read 6,887,863 times
Reputation: 4667
Default thanks, Nate

Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
No, he is saying that active faith is the opposite of (he opposes it to) works of mere observance, and I might add that it is the opposite of intellectual assent without commitment.
I read that several times and it wasn't sticking right in my head, so I thought maybe there was an error---and there was. It was mine!!!
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Old 08-18-2013, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 6,505,226 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u225615 View Post

Revelation 3:15,16 <to those in Laodicea>... "I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

It appears the Laodiceans' works were half hearted and minimal...and they would be spewed or vomited out of his mouth. Notice that it wasn't about whether or not they professed belief in Christ but because of their works/deeds they could lose out on eternal life.
I wonder if people take this as literally as they do many other symbolic things?
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Old 08-18-2013, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,568 posts, read 12,129,416 times
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Looking into eternity - I feel secure ...whether it is darkness and oblivion or it is light and life and joy...forever...I am fine with that...The only security I really hope for is in the thought that God will not frighten me to much and will be gentle with this poor soul.
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Old 08-19-2013, 01:41 AM
 
Location: Go West young man...
409 posts, read 892,721 times
Reputation: 324
Quote:
Revelation 3:15,16 <to those in Laodicea>... "I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

It appears the Laodiceans' works were half hearted and minimal...and they would be spewed or vomited out of his mouth. Notice that it wasn't about whether or not they professed belief in Christ but because of their works/deeds they could lose out on eternal life.
[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
I wonder if people take this as literally as they do many other symbolic things?
Whether literal or symbolic I suppose one would need to look into the matter further and judge for themselves. However, for those early Christians living in that city it would have been of great interest and they would have received it within the context of Revelation 3:19 ..."Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline..."

.
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Old 08-19-2013, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 6,492,069 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The Will of the Father and the eternal security of the believer is seen in the following passages.


1.) Who will enter into the kingdom of heaven? Matthew 7:21 tells us.
Matthew 7:21 ''Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

2.) What then is the will of the Father? John 6:40 tells us.
John 6:40 ''For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes on Him may have [Present Tense - they have it now] eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.''

3.) What must be done to do the work of the Father? John 6:27-29 tells us.
John 6:27 "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal." 28] Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works [erga; Plural - works] of God?" 29] Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work [ergon;Singular- one work] of God, that you believe on Him whom He has sent."

The will of the Father is to believe on the Son. The work of God is to believe on the Son.

When Jesus said not to work for the food that perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, He was asked by the crowd what those plural works were that they might be saved. But Jesus corrected the crowd by telling them that there was but one singular work by which they could be saved. And that one singular work was to believe on Him. This is in contrast to 'works'. One singular non-meritorious work for which you can take no credit - believe on Him.

John 6:39-40 show the believer's eternal security.
John 6:39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40] ''For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes on Him may have [Present Tense-they have it now] eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.''
The believer's eternal security is seen by the fact that the Father's will is that those whom He has given to Jesus not be lost, but raised up on the last day. That everyone who believes on Jesus will have eternal life and that Jesus will raise him up on the last day.


Having once come to the Father through Christ, once having believed on Christ, the believer is eternally secure because it is the Father's will that Jesus not lose him. And Jesus will do the will of the Father and not lose any whom the Father gave to Him, and will raise them up on the last day.

John 6:39-40 strongly affirms the eternal security of the believer.


Of John 6:38-40 the Bible Knowledge Commentary says:
6:38-39. Jesus then repeated His claim about His heavenly origin. The reason He came down from heaven was to do the will of the Father who sent Him. The Father's will is that those whom He gives to the Son will not suffer a single loss and all will be raised to life in the resurrection (cf. vv. 40, 44, 54). This passage is strong in affirming the eternal security of the believer.

6:40. This verse repeats and reinforces the ideas of the previous verses. One who looks and believes on Jesus for salvation has his destiny secure. The divine decree has insured it (cf. Rom. 8:28-30). He has eternal life (John 6:47, 50-51, 54, 58) and will be raised at the last day (cf. vv.39, 44, 54). [The Bible Knowledge Commentary, New Testament, An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty, p. 296]
If you believe that Jesus will do the will of the Father and not lose any who have believed on Him, then why would you doubt the believer's eternal security?

And yet, detractors who do not believe in the eternal security of the believer will make claims of cherry-picking, and of ignoring other verses which they think say that the believer's eternal salvation can be lost, but what can be more clear and direct than the Father's will that Jesus lose none of those who have believed on Him?

Legalists will continue to insist that you must work for your salvation, or add works to your faith for salvation, but that is refuted by Jesus Himself in John 6:27-29.

They will say that if you sin you can lose your salvation, but that ignores the fact that believer's do sin, and yet it is God's will that Jesus lose none whom the Father has given Him.

They will say that if you lose your faith you will lose your salvation. But again, that ignores the fact that Jesus will do the will of the Father and not lose any whom the Father has given to Him.


I do not intend to get into a long debate on this since I did that on another thread >>> The Doctrine of Eternal Security I posted the above passages for those who have ears to hear and can be objective.


And to head off claims that I am promoting a lazy spiritual life, or that I am promoting a sinful life;

The believer is commanded to pick up his cross and follow Jesus.
Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny [Imperative - it's a command] himself, and take up [Imperative - it's a command] his cross and follow [Imperative - it's a command] Me.
But whether you do pick up your cross and follow Jesus, or whether you don't, once you have believed on Christ, Jesus will not lose you, but will obey the Father's will. The believer has eternal life right now, at the present moment, and cannot lose it. Eternal life is a free gift and the calling of God and His gifts are irrevocable. God will not revoke the free gift of eternal life He has given to those who believe on Christ.

Rom. 5:15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. 16] The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.

Rom. 11:29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Rom. 8:30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
This is all predicated on Faith. Lose the Faith, and no more guarantee of salvation.
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