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Your reading the plurality into a form that the plurality is not. For the plurality your referring to which is Elohim is spoken of as such:
For the term Eloë in the Jewish language denotes God, while Elōeim and Eleōuth in the Hebrew language signify “that which contains all.” So your seeing "that which contains all" being denoted as plural but as you can see that doesn't mean more than one.
Do you disagree?
I do not disagree that most of Jews reject the truth today.. as they did 2000 years ago ... as most did since Moses.
I did not expect when doing this OP that folks like yourself and other hardened individuals were to miraculously turn about from their unbelief and using other so-called experts.
What this shows is those who have come to understand and believe the Deity do so because:
"those who are led by the SpiritofGod are the children ofGod."
We aren't "led" to this belief because of our fantastical ability to comprehend or logically which is the downfall of so many from the anti-Deity crowd.
Last edited by twin.spin; 08-26-2013 at 02:31 PM..
Why keep posting passages "that seem to to indirectly imply in a round about way, but only if you presume that the Trinity one-substance doctrine is true before you actually read them."
If there is a passage or combination of passages that teaches "one in substance" and teaches it in a way that we cannot possibly mistake the intended meaning, please post it.
The Nicene/Athanasian Trinity does what it was designed to do. It stands on the razor's edge divide between strict monotheism and tritheism, while refusing to stand on either side. It tries to be both and neither. But it is not Biblical at all. If it was, we would see a passage explicitly say, "God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are three separate persons, but they are one in substance." No such passage exists. If it did, there would be no debate on the issue.
Because of the way you edited your reply in post #47, much of what you said does not appear here. Readers will have to refer to post #47 to see all your comments.
You fail to recognize that Scripture must be compared with Scripture in order to arrive at doctrinal conclusions.
You have been shown elsewhere that Hebrews 1:3 states that Jesus is the same nature (substance as the Father). In fact I just explained it to you again in post #31 of the thread //www.city-data.com/forum/chris...e-its-not.html
Is the following comment truly what you took what I said to mean? >>>'So you're saying that Adam and Eve are God the Father and God the Son?' No, that is not what I am saying. The word 'Echad' is used of Adam and Eve with reference to the fact that they are a united one. The same word 'Echad' is used in Deut. 6:4 and indicates a united one with reference to the Persons of the Godhead.
Acts 5:3 compared with Acts 5:4 shows that the Holy Spirit is God.
What I said about the Holy Spirit in post #43 was not to address the issue of 'one substance' which you are hung up on, as post #43 was not even addressed to you. What the verses show is that the Holy Spirit is God, and that He is a Person of the Trinity, distinct from the Father and from the Son in terms of His Personhood. (But not in term of His essence.)
What difference does it make whether one believes in the trinity or not. Is it not sufficient to believe in God the Father, his Son, and have the Holy Spirit. If we have the Holy Spirit within, does this mean we are part of the trinity? Will the arguments go on for infinity?
What difference does it make ? .... it's because there is only one true faith which is founded on the true God, and the true God is the Deity ... aka Triune God.
Will the arguments go on for infinity?
No.... We are witnessing to the truth
the opposition is arguing against the truth
No ... one day those who argue against the truth will get their wish and see the proof that they so vehemently argue against
Last edited by twin.spin; 08-26-2013 at 02:48 PM..
What difference does it make whether one believes in the trinity or not. Is it not sufficient to believe in God the Father, his Son, and have the Holy Spirit. If we have the Holy Spirit within, does this mean we are part of the trinity? Will the arguments go on for infinity?
It is at the core of the Truth. It shows that someone doesn't know what the Holy Spirit is if they refer to it as another person.
I do not disagree that most of Jews reject the truth today.. as they did 2000 years ago ... as most did since Moses.
I did not expect when doing this OP that folks like yourself and other hardened individuals were to miraculously turn about from their unbelief and using other so-called experts.
What this shows is those who have come to understand and believe the Deity do so because:
"those who are led by the SpiritofGod are the children ofGod."
We aren't "led" to this belief because of our fantastical ability to comprehend or logically which is the downfall of so many from the anti-Deity crowd.
I quoted Irenaeus. Do you reject his expertise on the matter?
I quoted Irenaeus. Do you reject his expertise on the matter?
You mean the same Irenaeus who is quoted in the new Catholic catechism, who said about Mary:
As St. Irenaeus says, "Being obedient she became the cause of salvation for herself and the whole human race" (Par. 494).
yes ... and I do not find it unusual that that folks like yourself and other hardened individuals happen to quote others who happen to reject other Biblical truths.
Birds of the same feather do fly together ..... so it seems.
You mean the same Irenaeus who is quoted in the new Catholic catechism, who said about Mary:
As St. Irenaeus says, "Being obedient she became the cause of salvation for herself and the whole human race" (Par. 494).
yes ... and I do not find it unusual that that folks like yourself and other hardened individuals happen to quote others who happen to reject other Biblical truths.
Birds of the same feather do fly together it seems.
Calvin used to quote him, so I thought you held possibly to Calvin's teachings.
Understandable, but Calvin was not correct in few certain areas.
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