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No, because there are different meaning for equality depending on the context. The Holy Spirit is the very nature of God and when given to us we more and more reflect the nature of God but with lots of mercy for our continuing failings. Unlike Christ who was born with, grew with and always retained the nature of God in which it was impossible for Him to sin either by commission or omission because unlike us who have limited free will He had no other will but that of God's.
I think I'm sort of in agreement with you, but tell me please, what exactly is the name they have in common?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacegiver
"No one knows the son except the Father and no one knows the Father except the son and whoever the son wishes to reveal Him."
To the true disciple the secrets of the kingdom of God are revealed, to the outsiders it is a mystery. They will look but they will not see, listen but not hear, unless they repent and are allowed to enter. Seek and you shall find, ask and you'll receive, knock and the door will open.
No one can enter the kingdom by the gate unless they are born of water and spirit.
"The Lord God does nothing without revealing His secrets to His servants the prophets."
"When the lion roars who will not fear it, when the Lord God speaks who will not prophecy."
"A king will reign justly and princes will rule rightly."
Anyone who offers praise as a sacrifice glorifies me and to him who goes the right way I will show the salvation of God."says the Lord
"Observe what is right and do what is just for my salvation is near to attain my justice about to be revealed, blessed is the man who does this the son of man who holds to it."
"Who has stood in the counsel of the Lord to see and to hear His word? Who has heed His word so as to announce it."
That's very interesting, Peacegiver, but it didn't even begin to answer my very simple question. Maybe I should rephrase it...
What is the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost?
That's very interesting, Peacegiver, but it didn't even begin to answer my very simple question. Maybe I should rephrase it...
What is the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost?
I have put down scripture to point the way to answer your question. The answer to all your questions about God and heaven is in the paths of the son of man.
As it is written;"Why do you ask my name? Which is a mystery.
"The man who loves me will keep my word."
"The man who keeps the commandments he has from me is the man who loves me and the man who loves me will be loved by my Father, I too shall love him and reveal myself to him."
If the only intended meaning of "one in substance" is that they are all exactly alike in "Sovereignty, Perfect Righteousness, Perfect Justice, Love, Eternality, Omniscience, Omnipresence, Omnipotence, Veracity, and Immutability." then we completely agree. If we have two copies of "To Kill a Mocking Bird" printed on the same press on the same day with the same cover and everything ... I think we can agree that they are exactly alike. This expands to all the references to coins and stamps and so forth. Perfect copies. Got it. No disagreement there. If anything, I think your list of shared attributes is incomplete.
It is my experience that there is a lot more to it than that. The part where "one in substance" becomes non-Biblical is when the Trinitarian concludes that they are three individual persons, yet they are the same being. It is on this very point where Trinitarians seem to begin to vary and disagree on exactly what they mean when they say consubstantial. Some would say "one being" is exactly what they mean. A rough majority would say "one being" isn't quite what they mean, but that it is very close to right. In both cases, that is where I disagree. "Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the same being, more or less" = not Biblical.
Well, read what the ancient church Fathers said about it. Have you read the Letter of Ninety Bishops of Egypt and Libya Including Athanasius?>>>Athanasius: To the Bishops of Africa
In section 4, reference is made to Hebrews 1:3.
4. The Nicene Formula in Accordance with Scripture.
Who is in His substance13 and hath seen His word;' and just below, `if they had stood in My subsistence14 and heard My words:' now subsistence is essence, and means nothing else but very being, which Jeremiah calls existence, in the words, `and they heard not the voice of existence15 .' For subsistence, and essence, is existence: for it is, or in other words exists. This Paul also perceiving wrote to the Hebrews, `who being the brightness of his glory, and the express Image of his subsistence16 .'
In section 5 the Son is said to be coessential with the Father.
5. How the Test `Coessential' Came to Be Adopted at Nicaea.
And as to the actual definition of Nicaea, that the Son is coessential with the Father, on account of which they ostensibly oppose the synod, and buzz around everywhere like gnats about the phrase, either they stumble at it from ignorance, like those who stumble at the stone of stumbling that was laid in Sion20 ; or else they know, but for that very reason are constantly opposing and murmuring, because it is an accurate declaration and full in the face of their heresy.
In section 8 essence is defined in terms of Eternality, omnipotence, and immutability. Three of the ten attributes that I listed.
8. The Son's Relation to the Father Essential, Not Merely Ethical.
Now, He has the prerogative of creating and making, of Eternity, of omnipotence, of immutability. But things originate cannot have the power of making, for they are creatures; nor eternity, for their existence has a beginning; nor of omnipotence and immutability, for they are under sway, and of changeable nature, as the Scriptures say. Well then, if these prerogatives belong to the Son, they clearly do so, not on account of His virtue, as said above, but essentially, even as the synod said, `He is of no other essence' but of the Father's, to whom these prerogatives are proper. But what can that be which is proper to the Father's essence, and an offspring from it, or what name can we give it, save `coessential?'
So it is seen that when the ancient church Fathers referred to the nature, essence, or substance of God they were referring to God's attributes, as I have been doing.
I know you don't agree with the following, but I do. As for the matter of God being three Persons, or if you wish, three centers of consciousness within the Godhead, but being One Being, He is one Being by reason of the unity of the attributes which are common to all three Persons. There is a conjunction of plurality and unity -- one Essence subsisting in three Persons. I like the way Lewis Sperry Chafer explains it.
The term personality as applied to God is not to be understood or taken in its strict philosophical sense, in which case wholly distinct beings are indicated. God is one Being, but He is more than one Being in three relations. Well-defined acts which are personal in character are ascribed to each Person of the Three. These acts unequivocally establish personality. Language labors under difficulties at this point. The Persons are not separate, but distinct. The Trinity is compose of three united Persons without separate existence---so completely united as to form One God. The divine nature subsists in three distinctions---Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. [Systematic Theology, Chafer, Lewis Sperry, vol. 1, p. 276]
Last edited by Michael Way; 08-31-2013 at 09:20 PM..
The HS is not the antonym of sin...If what you state be the case then Isaac was born with the HS and tberefore was God also...
That is simply a twist in logic because you have no foundation in the Truth. Isaac was born a sinner and even latter He did not have the Spirit without messure as Christ did who was born with and retained.
That is simply a twist in logic because you have no foundation in the Truth. Isaac was born a sinner and even latter He did not have the Spirit without messure as Christ did who was born with and retained.
Well, in this matter yes and I think by now you would too.
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