U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 08-31-2013, 05:47 PM
 
73 posts, read 91,145 times
Reputation: 13

Advertisements

Let’s search, study and read what the word of God has to say about God’s spirits and angels;






Heb.1
[7] And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.


So we know for a fact that angels are SPIRITS! And there are only TWO types of spirits; 'those that are holy' and 'those that are evil'


Again it states;


[14] Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?


And which angels are ministering spirits doing the work of the Lord? ALL of them, whether they are called ‘Holy‘ or ‘Evil‘, ALL spirits do the will of the Lord! Now that we know that ALL angels are spirits let's read when an angel was called a "Holy Spirit"

Exod.13
[18] But God led the people about, through the way of the wilderness of the Red sea: and the children of Israel went up harnessed out of the land of Egypt.

Even though the verse said it was God that led the people, we will now find out that God gives His 'holy spirits' all authority as Himself in certain situations. Now let's read this same event told later in the book of Isa.


Isa.63
[9] In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.

So we find it was 'the angel of his presence' at work. Now let's read what the angel was called;

[10] But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.

WHO did the nation of Israel vex? God's 'holy Spirit'! And what was it called? An 'Angel'.

Let's read what else the angle/holy spirit did while working with the authority of God;

[11] Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?
[12] That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name?
[13] That led them through the deep, as an horse in the wilderness, that they should not stumble?

So the period of time being spoken of here is when the Angel of the Lord, a HOLY SPIRIT, looked over and protected the nation of Israel while they were in the wilderness.

Now let's go back to Exod. to confirm this same event that was told in Isa.

Exod.23
[20] Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

So who was it really that protected Israel? God's "Holy Spirit", an Holy Angel! Let's continue;

[21] Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.

So this "Holy Angel", or God’s “Holy Spirit” had the authority of God to punish as he saw fit. Why? Because he was working under the name of God. He was working with the authority given to him by God. Now was this holy spirit only allowed to punish? Let’s read…..


[22] But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.
[23] For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.

God’s holy spirit (angel) had the authority to punish AND reward as he saw fit.

So now we see that the Holy Spirit spoken of in Isa. was actually one of God's Holy Angels.

So when we read the following;

Exod.13
[18] But God led the people about, through the way of the wilderness of the Red sea: and the children of Israel went up harnessed out of the land of Egypt.

We now know that it was really one of God’s angels, one of God’s ‘Holy Spirits’;

Exod.23
[20] Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

[21] Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.

Isa.63
[9] In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.

[10] But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.

 

Please understand something here….even though the passage in Exod.13:18 said that it was God, we later found out that it was actually an Holy Spirit, God’s Holy Spirit that performed the action.




Let's look at two more places where an Angel, also known as God’s ‘Holy Spirit' was either called God, or acted or spoke with the authority of God;



Num.22
[35] And the angel of the LORD said unto Balaam, Go with the men: but only the word that I shall speak unto thee, that thou shalt speak. So Balaam went with the princes of Balak.

Now let’s read who Balaam said gave him the words to speak;

[38] And Balaam said unto Balak, Lo, I am come unto thee: have I now any power at all to say any thing? the word that God putteth in my mouth, that shall I speak.

Even though it was the angel of the Lord that gave Balaam the words to say, Balaam said it was God Himself that put the words in his mouth. Let’s read another;

Judg.2
[1] And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you.

Again, the angel, a 'Holy Spirit', God’s ’Holy Spirit’, is talking as though he was the one that made the covenant with the nation of Israel, though we know it was really the Lord, the angel still spoke as if it were he that made the agreement with the nation of Israel.

So we have found (2) other places where God’s ‘Holy Spirit’ or and ‘holy angel’ spoke with either the authority of God or was called God.

When reading God's word you will find many places where the angel of the Lord, God’s ’holy spirit/angel’, speaks and works as though he is the Lord. You will find throughout the scriptures many times when the Lord gives His "Holy Spirits" the same power and authority as Himself.


Now that we have done some research and studied God’s word and have learned how angels (God’s holy spirits) are sometimes called God and even act with all of the authority and power of God, let’s go to another place in the bible where it may appear the Holy Spirit is called God.


Acts 5
[3] But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land?
[4] Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

Based upon researching and studying God's word, it is clear that the Holy Spirit spoken of above was just that; a Holy Angel speaking AND punishing with all of the authority of God. Peter said they lied to the Holy Ghost, then said they lied to God. How can this be?

Just as God gave His "Holy Spirit" authority in the past, even to say, "my name is in him", and to be called God, He did the same thing here with Peter.


God's Holy Spirit is NOT a God as the Father and the Son are. It is an Holy Angel, the Spirit of Truth, the Comforter that brings all things to rememberence.


God has an order in which He gives His word; God the Father gives His message to God the Son. God the Son gives that SAME message to the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost/Spirit of Truth/Comforter. And the Holy Spirit gives that SAME message to man. Thus, all that bring the same message are ONE.


Just as God’s word says here;


John 17
[11] And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
[20] Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
[21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.


Here……


1John.5
[7] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.


And here.......


Rev.1
[1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
[2] Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.


God gave His message to the Son. The Son gave the same message to the Holy Angel. The Holy Angel, God’s Holy Spirit gave that same message to the men of God.


And now we, all one, give the same message to the world…..


“….that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe…….”


No Mystery! No guessing! No theories! No trinity! Just bible!


Now this makes sense!!!



.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-31-2013, 06:51 PM
 
6,570 posts, read 3,030,199 times
Reputation: 507
John 17 vs 11, 21-23 Jesus prays his followers be one just as he and his Father are one.

Jesus was Not praying they all be God, but like Jesus and his Father they all be one in purpose, goal, unity, agreement, faith, objective, harmony, preaching and teaching, etc.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-31-2013, 07:30 PM
Status: "Upright and mobile." (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
28,940 posts, read 15,270,712 times
Reputation: 13165
Don't limit yourself to only one, multi-men-compiled, multi-men-edited, multi-men-translated, ancient accumulation of world-understanding, circa 1500+ years ago.

That's an ancient people's best guess.

Don't forget to look around yourself today.

And then look beyond yourself, via the net, books, travel or talking with strangers. Learn about how big and wonderful this world is, how much it has to offer and explore and try to understand.

And then realize how tiny it is within the vast bosom of the universe.

And find time to sit quietly in a place governed by nature, not man - a place of grass, wind, trees and water - of animals voices drowning out that of civilization.

Repeat as often as possible and you may be fortunate enough to ignite your spirit and sustain its flame with truth and understanding.

There's a world you ignore. It is at your foot and doorstep.

Open the door and walk.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-31-2013, 07:39 PM
 
73 posts, read 91,145 times
Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
John 17 vs 11, 21-23 Jesus prays his followers be one just as he and his Father are one.

Jesus was Not praying they all be God, but like Jesus and his Father they all be one in purpose, goal, unity, agreement, faith, objective, harmony, preaching and teaching, etc.

And since the Holy Angel/Spirit ONLY brings what is given to him by the Son....He too is one with the Father and Son. Let's read...

John 16
[13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.


So when we read that all (3) are one;


John 10
[30] I and my Father are one.

1 John 5
[7] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

We can understand that all (3) separate beings; God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Spirit (Not a God but an Holy Angel), ALL have the same message, goal, purpose, faith, etc.


And the same way they are one, so is ALL that bring the same message, goal, purpose, faith, etc.;

John 17
[11] And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
[21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.


.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-31-2013, 07:52 PM
 
6,570 posts, read 3,030,199 times
Reputation: 507
1st John 5 vs 7,8 from the Greek Interlinear reads there are three witness bearers, the spirit and the water and the blood, and the three are in agreement in that they are one thing.

KJV took the liberty to say otherwise.

Jesus was Not praying his followers all be God [ I ' and ' the Father are one ] - John 17 vs 11, 21,22,23
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-31-2013, 08:05 PM
Status: "Upright and mobile." (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
28,940 posts, read 15,270,712 times
Reputation: 13165
There are at least two very apt metaphors in the bible.

One is the Garden of Eden.

And the other is the Tower of Babel.

In my version, the inhabitants of the Tower can only spout scripture.

And they think they're making a point.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-31-2013, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Florida -
9,640 posts, read 12,064,453 times
Reputation: 19677
Scripture provides substantial evidence that 'God's Holy Spirit' is one with God. That evidence has been incontrovertibly affirmed among mankind in the work of the Spirit who: leads, guides, empowers, conveys Spiritual life, 'is with believers always,' 'was sent by Christ following the resurrection,' 'reveals all things', 'is the mind of Christ' .... etc. Further, Jesus specifically declared that 'God Himself is Spirit'.

'Those who are led by the Spirit', 'understand the things of God through His Word' ('which is inspired by the Spirit'); and as revealed by the 'mind of God' who resides within them 'as the indwelling Holy Spirit.'

-- It seems like the best that detractors can offer is that, "they categorically reject whatever the Bible says and further, don't understand what the Bible says." Therefore, although they lack any evidence to the contrary, refuse to believe what the Bible says about the Holy Spirit ... or anything else." However, they contend that others should believe and trust what they have to say (!?).

Last edited by jghorton; 08-31-2013 at 08:43 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-01-2013, 07:27 AM
 
Location: US
30,425 posts, read 16,734,928 times
Reputation: 2044
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
Don't limit yourself to only one, multi-men-compiled, multi-men-edited, multi-men-translated, ancient accumulation of world-understanding, circa 1500+ years ago.

That's an ancient people's best guess.

Don't forget to look around yourself today.

And then look beyond yourself, via the net, books, travel or talking with strangers. Learn about how big and wonderful this world is, how much it has to offer and explore and try to understand.

And then realize how tiny it is within the vast bosom of the universe.

And find time to sit quietly in a place governed by nature, not man - a place of grass, wind, trees and water - of animals voices drowning out that of civilization.

Repeat as often as possible and you may be fortunate enough to ignite your spirit and sustain its flame with truth and understanding.

There's a world you ignore. It is at your foot and doorstep.

Open the door and walk.
I like that...
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:34 AM.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top