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What is correct to the Pope is not necessarily correct to me, or to many others. How he chooses to operate his organization is certainly up to him.
I don't see anything in the bible against abortion. People in early times aborted and tried different means of birth control. Certainly, God created gay animals and humans are but one of them. Did God make a mistake? Is God a hypocrite or does He/She enjoy human suffering?
Frankly, if a woman does not want a kid in her life, I see no wrong in aborting it. None at all. We are just a higher type of animal and we are not squeamish when it comes to our treatment of those others with whom we share the planet.
Which is probably one reason God instituted the Christian Church. It seems without it people really don't have much of a moral compass.
The governments often won't allow a 17 year old to shoot up heroin or even to get a tattoo. Kind of hypocritical to allow her to abort another human life. And yes.. genetically its human life. Of course, genetics, development in the woman, and "life," does not matter to many people unless they're frothing at the mouth pontifcating about "life" of the homosexual beginning at conception in which his homosexuality was genetically inherited.
The RCC is the greatest and most important entity in Western History. Like all large entities it tries to preserve itself. This has been the case from the very onset of Christianity.
Actually, it seems to me that those within the RCC from the pews of Detroit all the way up to the Vatican do in their might to destroy the RCC.
Long ago a Jewish man observed this... especially with respects to sins... and converted to the RCC because of that. Concluding it must be God working in the Church to preserve it as any other human institution would have fallen.
On a separate occasion, some centuries ago, some person of power threatened to destroy the Church, and some RCC Bishop responded, "Oh, my good sir, not even with Bishops have been able to do that."
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We can put down the RCC all day long for past errors, but nowadays it seems to be much more forgiving and accepting of others that most religions.
It always has. That's the underlying criticism it receives: "Oh, look at all the sins over there." All the sinners in Catholicism from the laity in the pews to the Cardinals in the Vatican.
I don't think children deserve to be in a dysfunctional situation and abortion is a was to avoid that.
There is a big difference, to women who abort their kids, between snuffing out a life that has never had a breath of air and what you suggest above.
To me, your suggestion would also lead to criminalizing alcohol because it might lead to drug abuse.
ROFL ROFL ASK THE CHILD.... Would you rather live through hell and become an adult, or would you rather I end your life. That is the most asinine thing I've ever heard.
This is easy to reconcile. We can go to the inner city where the kids dont' know who their daddy is, who's mama slaps them around, who are trying to make friends but live in a hostile place where he's in fights, and ask them, "This is a hard life, how about if I just end it now, isn't that what you would prefer?"
There is no difference, UNLESS you can show me the woman's womb does not have a person coming out of it.
The only big difference as you word it, is a living child makes you feel guiltier. Because you've had to look them in the eyes, and then take their life. You can pretend that fetus isn't going to be a living person and hold no guilt. HOW MANY LIVING PEOPLE DO YOU THINK WANTS to NOT be alive? We have statistics on that. Less than one one thousandth of one percent of people suicide.
Now, can; you tell me which one of the fetuses will be that minor percentage?
This is what we call justification. And notice how you avoided the killing granny and grandpa when they can't provide for themselves? You can't say it's ok to end a life that you have seen. Why is it ok to end a life that hasn't even had a chance to make a choice?
If the woman has a right to her body, surely a man has a right to his body, and that fetus is either male or female, or rarely a combination thereof. They have a right.
Why is it murder to shoot a fetus in the womb, but ok to kill it through abortion?
Actually, it seems to me that those within the RCC from the pews of Detroit all the way up to the Vatican do in their might to destroy the RCC.
Long ago a Jewish man observed this... especially with respects to sins... and converted to the RCC because of that. Concluding it must be God working in the Church to preserve it as any other human institution would have fallen.
On a separate occasion, some centuries ago, some person of power threatened to destroy the Church, and some RCC Bishop responded, "Oh, my good sir, not even with Bishops have been able to do that."
It always has. That's the underlying criticism it receives: "Oh, look at all the sins over there." All the sinners in Catholicism from the laity in the pews to the Cardinals in the Vatican.
History says that the CC is the church of Christ . The pedigree is undeniable and it will continue to be a force in history.
The reform has failed in replacing the CC. It is not going to happen.
A more scientific and academic CC will never be a bad thing. If the CC had no base on sound rational principles i would leave catholicism.
History says that the CC is the church of Christ . The pedigree is undeniable and it will continue to be a force in history.
The reform has failed in replacing the CC. It is not going to happen.
A more scientific and academic CC will never be a bad thing. If the CC had no base on sound rational principles i would leave catholicism.
I can deny it. I try to avoid that conversation because I don't want to shake up some CCM's faith. But if you are going to put it out there like it's a fact, I'll be glad to accommodate that conversation in it's own thread. You have at least five other Churches that could make that claim.
I respect, admire and in forums like this most often defend the CC. But this forum doesn't seem to have the inherent Catholic bashing bigots you find elsewhere so I've not had to go there.
Which is probably one reason God instituted the Christian Church. It seems without it people really don't have much of a moral compass.
The governments often won't allow a 17 year old to shoot up heroin or even to get a tattoo. Kind of hypocritical to allow her to abort another human life. And yes.. genetically its human life. Of course, genetics, development in the woman, and "life," does not matter to many people unless they're frothing at the mouth pontifcating about "life" of the homosexual beginning at conception in which his homosexuality was genetically inherited.
I disagree. People may certainly have a moral compass without the Catholic Church. It's just a different moral compass, one that's alien to some, one that obviously differs from yours. I don't impose my moral compass on you, and you don't do so to me. That's a democracy for ya'.
In my values I care more for the mature woman and her life than for the combination of cells in the process of becoming. I hope for children to be reared in nurturing homes where they were planned for and are wanted. I totally agree that if a woman feels she cannot provide for a child or is not in a spot in life where it is convenient, she can abort. It is because I DO care that I take this stance.
I'm sure you think that you care as well, so we'll just have to live with disagreeing. You live your life your way, and I will do the same.
Well, the Pope may have excommunicated a priest for questionable reasons in the eyes of some. But as a non-Catholic, I find him to be one of the most refreshing spiritual leaders in recent memory. None of the glorified Protestant TV ministers can even light a candle next to him.
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Shortly after the conclave, Francis visited a detention center near Rome where he washed young prisoners’ feet in one of his first public events. He has also shunned the apostolic apartments, choosing to live in a more modest dwelling where he said he feels less isolated. And last month, Francis got his own personal car to drive within Vatican City: a 29-year-old Renault beater with 186,000 miles on it.
Earlier this week, in an interview with the Italian daily La Repubblica, the pontiff mentioned his namesake, saying that St. Francis had “longed for a poor Church that looked after others, accepted monetary help and used it to help others with no thought of itself.”
“Eight hundred years have passed and times have changed, but the ideal of a missionary and poor Church is still more than valid,” he said.
I think he is putting to shame the lifestyles of some of the cardinals and bishops within his own faith. The scriptures say "judgment must begin at the House of God" and Pope Francis is doing that not with words, but by example.
Well, the Pope may have excommunicated a priest for questionable reasons in the eyes of some. But as a non-Catholic, I find him to be one of the most refreshing spiritual leaders in recent memory. None of the glorified Protestant TV ministers can even light a candle next to him.
I think he is putting to shame the lifestyles of some of the cardinals and bishops within his own faith. The scriptures say "judgment must begin at the House of God" and Pope Francis is doing that not with words, but by example.
appears some conservative Catholics dislike the Pope
It appears that what some like myself would consider a refreshing look for the Catholic Church is upsetting the more conservative elements of the Church. Is there a looming religious political battle?
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Jeffrey Tucker, editor of the New Liturgical Movement blog, said the super-traditionalists should relax, even though he admitted Francis left him unsettled at first because he is so different from his more formal predecessor.
"All of us miss Benedict — we just do. It's kind of how the kids never like the new stepfather," Tucker said. "You get groovy with it and everything's OK. There's a group of traditionalists that just don't get it, and they're terrified."
Boston College theology professor Thomas Groome said it's easy to see why reactionaries would be on edge. While the pope hasn't messed with doctrine, a shift in priorities and pitch is clearly underway, he said.
"I think it will be a real test for conservative Catholics," he said. "They have always pointed the finger, quoting the pope for the last 35 years. Suddenly, will they stop quoting the pope. It'll be a good test of whether or not they're really Catholics."
It seems as though this priest had resigned first, in 2011.
This is still strange, coming from a Pope who just stated that Catholics should not be so hung up on abortion, gays, etc.
....
It's only strange if people are listening to the breathless MNM thinking that this pope has somehow changed church teaching; he hasn't. The MNM know why the priest was excommunicated, so that's why they appear to have buried the story.
Pope Francis also made some of his strongest pronouncements against abortion a couple of weeks ago, but the MNM curiously missed that, too.
I have to give this pope a failing grade, though, on clarity. Too many people have misinterpreted too many of his statements, and Pope Francis needs to be clearer.
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You have at least five other Churches that could make that claim. 
Pope Francis a GREAT role model
