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Nonsense. It was cultural bias based on the huge disparity in status between men and women (chattel). . . . involving access to education, literacy, knowledge of scriptures, etc., etc. This chauvinistic attitude based on the culture of our ignorant ancient ancestors has to stop. It feeds the egos of men but is entirely anti-Christ and anti-God.
It is interesting how, if the scripture is of consequence to you, or to the person interpreting, then there is controversy or rebellion. And Chauvin did not even exist until the 18th century.
That's not true. Paul gave a reason, and it had nothing to do with culture.
1 Tim. 2
12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
Can't be more plain that that. But I know there are those who wish to challenge God's word on the matter as if they are above God.
The scriptures are not the problem . . . ignorant interpretation of them is. Knowledge of the culture, audience and status differences among men and women is essential to interpreting the intent and import of the verses for the original audience. Lack of such knowledge (ignorance) is what has resulted in the absurd and inappropriate distortions we have when applied to a modern egalitarian culture. Once slaves were similarly status-deprived and the scriptures were improperly used to maintain it. It needs to stop. Christ accepts no such distinctions. God is no respecter of persons. God IS love and we are all loved equally and treated equally. Men have no greater status than women before God. We WILL each reap whatever we sow . . . and we each have Christ as our advocate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
The reason given had nothing to do with culture.
It has everything to do with the culture and status of women at the time (Chattel). They had no status in religious matters prior to Christ elevating some and teaching them. Of course they would not be allowed to speak about things they had not formally been taught. Peter was particularly annoyed that Jesus treated women so differently . . . so it is not surprising that after Christ's death . . . the lack of status of women would be reinforced. The male ego knows few bounds. It was especially so in such primitive, savage and barbaric times.
It was ENTIRELY cultural bias based on the huge disparity in status between men and women . . . involving access to education, literacy, knowledge of scriptures, etc., etc. This chauvinistic attitude based on the culture of our ignorant ancient ancestors has to stop. It feeds the egos of men but is entirely anti-Christ and anti-God. That is why it is important to interpret scripture spiritually and not carnally as you are doing. The natural man (carnal) has no understanding of the Spirit and he misunderstands the import and intent of scripture, period. It has been the main stumbling block to understanding God and Christ's Gospel presented by the mainstream churches.
Reliance on the "words written in ink" instead of those "written in our hearts" by God has been the major failure to accept the New Covenant. Christ abides with us (too many do NOT believe this) and His Comforter (Holy Spirit) guides us to the truth God has "written in our hearts." When we read scripture . . . if we would be led by the Spirit we must use the "mind of Christ" (ask WWJT) . . . NOT what our carnal-minded and ignorant ancestors believed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
That's not true. Paul gave a reason, and it had nothing to do with culture.
1 Tim. 2
12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
Yes, I saw that, and that has got to be the most specious "reason" I have ever seen besides the one where God gets to be unjust because He's God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
Paul was just referring back to Genesis 2 & 3.
Everything you believe about Genesis is wrong, jimmie . . . especially the bold nonsense. It has been interpreted using the wrong context of God's true nature. Eden was simply our first of many NECESSARY lessons in our journey to spiritual maturity as a species. We HAVE to know the difference between Good and Evil . . . if we are to truly "love God and each other" and control our baser instincts.
It has everything to do with the culture and status of women at the time (Chattel). They had no status in religious matters prior to Christ elevating some and teaching them. Of course they would not be allowed to speak about things they had not formally been taught. Peter was particularly annoyed that Jesus treated women so differently . . . so it is not surprising that after Christ's death . . . the lack of status of women would be reinforced. The male ego knows few bounds. It was especially so in such primitive, savage and barbaric times.
It was ENTIRELY cultural bias based on the huge disparity in status between men and women . . . involving access to education, literacy, knowledge of scriptures, etc., etc. This chauvinistic attitude based on the culture of our ignorant ancient ancestors has to stop. It feeds the egos of men but is entirely anti-Christ and anti-God. That is why it is important to interpret scripture spiritually and not carnally as you are doing. The natural man (carnal) has no understanding of the Spirit and he misunderstands the import and intent of scripture, period. It has been the main stumbling block to understanding God and Christ's Gospel presented by the mainstream churches.
Reliance on the "words written in ink" instead of those "written in our hearts" by God has been the major failure to accept the New Covenant. Christ abides with us (too many do NOT believe this) and His Comforter (Holy Spirit) guides us to the truth God has "written in our hearts." When we read scripture . . . if we would be led by the Spirit we must use the "mind of Christ" (ask WWJT) . . . NOT what our carnal-minded and ignorant ancestors believed.
Everything you believe about Genesis is wrong, jimmie . . . especially the bold nonsense. It has been interpreted using the wrong context of God's true nature. Eden was simply our first of many NECESSARY lessons in our journey to spiritual maturity as a species. We HAVE to know the difference between Good and Evil . . . if we are to truly "love God and each other" and control our baser instincts.
No. No. No. Peter, who walked with Jesus, confirmed Paul's writings as gospel. You can argue with them.
I would argue that Paul had created his own gospel, ignoring the gospel of Jesus.
Many disciples did not trust Paul , and rightly so.
He never left off being a Pharisee, setting aside "The law" to establish his own law .
Though he knew of the Holy spirit's job to teach the believer, he circumvented God, making him self the divine authority rather than directing believers to seek God for instruction.
Notice John writes a warning to this effect. 1John 2; verses 20,-27, in particular.
Paul's influence corrupted the gospel in the disciples, teaching God compromising with sin adding a term "grace", Jesus never taught, when plainly Jesus requires repentance.
Paul did not repent ,he merely added Jesus to his philosophical list, and rewrote a gospel of his own to fit his agenda.
Even Peter noted that Paul's teaching had controversy.
Paul's claim to an education is the distortion the disciples had to deal with . Plus Paul was writer ,not even all of his writings made the bible either. Later manuscripts were found in Albania.
This does not make him an authority, it makes him an egocentric.
He even stated a condemnation for conflicting with HIS gospel .
Every letter of Paul starts with His name, ,None of the disciples did that.
While Paul said eating the meat offered to idols is nothing, Jesus in Revelation had some very sharp words to that effect.
Many of you folk claim to be well read of the bible, but seem to miss all this in justification and protection of something you worship.
It is not the Bible you should be worshipping, but God .
If you call Jesus Lord, but do not obey Him ,what is that called ?
Jesus reprimanded the disciples for the same thing.
Jesus said the Holy Spirit would teach the same things Jesus taught , but Paul went about teaching things Jesus did not say nor are His character .
If you Faith is based on the knowledge of the word, rather than a relationship with God ,How will you explain your self to God come judgment day, knowing He had so costly provided the Holy Spirit to teach in His place ?
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