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#1. Rev 3:12 speaks for itself, so just read that up. And if you believe that he comes with a new name, it means that he must be born on earth, ie His Spirit must be made flesh via the womb of a woman. Like it was before. Rev 12 : 5, therefore confirms why it was not necessary for the disciples to stand steadily gazing into the sky (Acts 1: 10 -12). It was not necessary, he would never descend from the sky, he comes as a human being like me and you, but he is not given the spirit in measure like us humans.
Rev 3:12 do speak of itself. and his name “JESUS”, was not known at that time, for there was no “J” in the Hebrew language AT THAT TIME. now as then, whenever one have a dominate Language, it rules. and today we have English, Just as in the days of Babylon, that language dominated the land. and Hebrew names was known in that Language. well today, the English language dominates the land, and only Jesus knew this language to come. supportive scripture, Revelation 19:12 " His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself”. that’s the NEW NAME, the one he had then, YESHUA, Hebrew, the new name JESUS, which is his English name to come. which no man at that time knew.
#2. What I am saying in 2 is also simple. Jesus made it clear that he had to go before the Holy Spirit comes. Why was that? It was because with him in the world, the next assignment cannot begin. The Holy Spirit is actually God himself. Since Christ sacrificed his blood, God now came to live inside us to help us do things that we could not do. Notice the wonderful advancement humankind have made in all facets of life after Christ exited. Those things were in fact done by man through the inspiration of the Spirit. Now to your point about explaining the duality of the Holy Spiirt, I invite you to read carefully with Faith, John 14
I’m glad you invited me to John 14. JESUS is the HOLY SPIRIT. he said that he would come to us. John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you”. so how did our Lord Jesus come to us?”, answer, as the Holy Spirit. the Lord Jesus said that he will come, right, listen. John 14:22 "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?”. did you hear what Judas said?. Listen closely, “wilt manifest thyself unto us”. manifest “THYSELF”. the Lord Jesus is going to manifesthimself. he is the Spirit. now the question, how is he going to manifest himself?. answer, the Spiritual gifts. this is the outpouring that the prophet Joel foretold that will happen, and it was realized on the day of Pentecost. and the apostle was speaking in tongues. and these gifts are listed in 1 Corinthians 12:7-11. that’s why I know that a woman can preach, teach, and pastor. this is what I was pointing out in the topic I posted, “Can a woman pastor”. because it’s a gifts. see, Jesus is the Holy Spirit, and he came on Pentecost, in POWER, with these GIFTS. that's how he, (JESUE), will MANIFEST "HIMSELF", as was asked by Judas. listen, 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But themanifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal". there is the MANIFESTATION. Jesus the Christ is the HOLY SPIRIT.
#3.The folks who will know the Comforter are his elects. The rest unbelievers will not know him. The Comforter , who is the Holy Spirit will have ability to dwell with and live inside, the elects. In other words, the Comforter is both physically seen and spiritual. Therefore he has duality of existence. Christ exhibited such *duality* *of existence* after his death and resurrection. He was able to 'appear' when doors were locked, heard conversations (Thomas) etc, but again he "denied" being a pure spirit as he had "flesh and bones".
I believe you have it a bit different. the manifestation of the Holy Spirit is a PHYICAL aspects, raising the dead, speaking in tongues, ect... that not a “duality”, that just a MANIFESTATION of the SAME SPIRIT.
#4. The Comforter shall teach, he shall instruct, he shall hear... signifying a humanly existence as well. God the Father is the Comforter and this truth Christ secretly alluded to in the below verses: John16.
the Lord Jesus is the Father. just as I have pointed out above. but lets make it plain. John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever”. ok the Father is going to send the Holy Spirit right?. well lets see. John 16:7 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you”. WAIT A MINUTE. I thought in John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter”. but in John 16:7b, JESUS said, “I will send him unto you”. now, I have never known our Lord Jesus to lie?. NO. so what’s going on here?. Jesus is the Father, without flesh and bone. as Son, he’s the “diversity”, or the offspring with flesh and bones. now if you want a duality there it is. that's the "elohiym". see the Lord Jesus is ALLOS with GOD, Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort. that's his Plurality in number
can you see that?. the SAME PERSON only “diversified”, again see, (Phil 2:6-8). God is a plurality in number, but the SAME PERSON. only SHARED, not a division, or copy as a separate person. but one PERSON, SHARING THE THE SAME NATURE IN FLESH AND BONE. the Allos.
so there is no duality of existence. scripture, Ephesians 4:4 "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling”.
#5.Pay attention to verse 15, Christ clarifies that the Comforter was actually his Father. If you see him after a little while because he goes to the Father, it means the Father is the one coming. The Comforter is coming to do an even bigger assignment than Christ. To teach man and to show us things which Christ could not/did not show us. Who is that greater teacher than Christ if not the Father? That is why we must realize that Christ cannot come in a vacuum. He must come through his Father who is the owner of the kingdom. You will now understand the parable of the wicked husbandmen: Mathew 21
well I believe you are in ERROR here. Jesus is the Comforter, as the diversity, listen, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous”. that word “advocate”, is G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (par-ak'-lay-tos). which can be translated as “COMFORTER”. or an intercessor. see, as a diversity, he, (JESUS), is both God, and Lord as Thomas declared, “My Lord and my God”. so accord to the Spirit, he’s no one’s Son.. only in the flesh, as a diversity is he a Son.
Now the rest I see as irrelevant to the topic,
101c,
If you misunderstand the fact that New testament scripture was based on Greek language and that the original Jewish pronunciations were changed in Greek and later in English, then I have a problem following your thoughts on other topics. Its not even an issue for debate. Once you throw up stuff like this, it tells me that
a) You pick and choose what scripture to believe.
b) You panel beat scripture to fit your own view.
Please , please educate your self on the origins of scripture. For you to state in this knowledge forum that his new name is Jesus, which is the same name he answered in his advent, is putting down the word of God. Did Jesus not know he answered Jesus in his former advent? Did John not know the name Jesus? If the same Jesus tells him about a new name, it means that there is a new name and whether it fits with your thinking or understanding it does not matter. It is simply what it is. He does not need anyone approval for his word to come to pass!
Isaiah 62 also foresaw this new name:
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2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.
3 Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the Lord, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God.
Seems to me that you ignore the word of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Why? Immerse yourself in his word, and ask him for understanding. He will give it to you.
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The original Hebrew-Aramaic name of Jesus is yeshu‘a, which is short for yehōshu‘a (Joshua), just as Mike is short for Michael. The name yeshu‘a occurs 27 times in the Hebrew Scriptures, primarily referring to the high priest after the Babylonian exile, called both yehōshu‘a (see, e.g., Zechariah 3:3) and, more frequently, yeshu‘a (see, e.g., Ezra 3:2). So, Yeshua’s name was not unusual; in fact, as many as five different men had that name in the Old Testament. And this is how that name came to be “Jesus” in English: Simply stated, this is the etymological history of the name Jesus: Hebrew/Aramaic yeshu‘a became Greek Iēsous, then Latin Iesus, passing into German and then, ultimately, into English, as Jesus. - See more at: Ask Dr. Brown
The original Hebrew-Aramaic name of Jesus is yeshu‘a, which is short for yehōshu‘a (Joshua), just as Mike is short for Michael. The name yeshu‘a occurs 27 times in the Hebrew Scriptures, primarily referring to the high priest after the Babylonian exile, called both yehōshu‘a (see, e.g., Zechariah 3:3) and, more frequently, yeshu‘a (see, e.g., Ezra 3:2). So, Yeshua’s name was not unusual; in fact, as many as five different men had that name in the Old Testament. And this is how that name came to be “Jesus” in English: Simply stated, this is the etymological history of the name Jesus: Hebrew/Aramaic yeshu‘a became Greek Iēsous, then Latin Iesus, passing into German and then, ultimately, into English, as Jesus. - See more at: Ask Dr. Brown
The original Hebrew-Aramaic name of Jesus is yeshu‘a, which is short for yehōshu‘a (Joshua), just as Mike is short for Michael. The name yeshu‘a occurs 27 times in the Hebrew Scriptures, primarily referring to the high priest after the Babylonian exile, called both yehōshu‘a (see, e.g., Zechariah 3:3) and, more frequently, yeshu‘a (see, e.g., Ezra 3:2). So, Yeshua’s name was not unusual; in fact, as many as five different men had that name in the Old Testament. And this is how that name came to be “Jesus” in English: Simply stated, this is the etymological history of the name Jesus: Hebrew/Aramaic yeshu‘a became Greek Iēsous, then Latin Iesus, passing into German and then, ultimately, into English, as Jesus. - See more at: Ask Dr. Brown
The original Hebrew-Aramaic name of Jesus is yeshu‘a, which is short for yehōshu‘a (Joshua), just as Mike is short for Michael. The name yeshu‘a occurs 27 times in the Hebrew Scriptures, primarily referring to the high priest after the Babylonian exile, called both yehōshu‘a (see, e.g., Zechariah 3:3) and, more frequently, yeshu‘a (see, e.g., Ezra 3:2). So, Yeshua’s name was not unusual; in fact, as many as five different men had that name in the Old Testament. And this is how that name came to be “Jesus” in English: Simply stated, this is the etymological history of the name Jesus: Hebrew/Aramaic yeshu‘a became Greek Iēsous, then Latin Iesus, passing into German and then, ultimately, into English, as Jesus. - See more at: Ask Dr. Brown
2) Again you confuse "manifestation of the Spirit" with dwelling of the Comforter. I never discussed manifestation of spiritual gifts. The coming of the comforter, his tasks were said by Jesus whom you say you believe. The spirit being inside you leads to a manifestation of the gifts in your life, but it does not stop the Comforter from dwelling with you. The Comforter is God the Father, who is also Christ as Christ is a bonafide part of the Godhead. Christ in his lifetime could not lead us to the accurate knowledge of the truth. That was not his assignment. He completed his assignment by shedding of his precious blood and then before exiting he told you that a Comforter would come who will:
a) Dwell with you
b) Live inside you
c) teach you and lead you to the accurate knowledge of the truth
d) Foretell the future
Now have you been taught by this Comforter? Have you asked God to reveal this Comforter to you or you believe everything ends and begins with Jesus? Where was Jesus when the Spirt was alone? Where was the son, when the Holy Spirit was walking on top of the waters? Jesus was the first creation of God and he was created as a part of Godhead (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). Jesus never contested headship/ownership with his Father. Jesus always acknowledged his Father as the source of all things, himself included. In the heavens the offices are known, Father , Son both united in the Holy Spirit. Please read (John 17: 1-5) As a result of his sacrifice, he has been exalted and given a promotion - a new rank, a new name, and at the mention of that name everything in heaven and on earth must bow.(Philip 2: 6-8). The question was asked in the heavens : who will go and save mankind? The heavens was quiet, not even the angels volunteered. Our Lord Jesus Christ stood up and said ,"Father send me, I will go and save mankind". He was told that he will be tortured, he will be mocked, he will be beaten and finally he will die, but he insisted that he wanted to go, a reminder of his unflinching love for man (the only creatures made in God's image). That sacrifice brought a lot of benefits to mankind and brought an everlasting glory to the Son, to the extent that now, he bears a new name : He is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, the iron Rod Ruler. In this dispensation, the whole world must bow down and worship him. Watch as events unfold, but I am assuring you that he is already on earth, like a thief at night. He is working, but the world would soon know him as he is revealed.
The template is there in the scripture, do not ignore it. Do not turn it to correspond to your earthly knowledge. There is only one universal truth. All that will happen and has happened can be summarised in the parable of the wicked husbandmen. Mathew 21: 33-44. Once you understand that, everything becomes clearer.
Jehovah Witness et al.
My opinion on JW is that nobody can witness for Jehovah God. So how can man appoint himself as a witness to God? Note I said Jehovah God, because Jehovah is an angel of God. There are many Jehovahs eg - Jehovah Jireh is an angel of the forest etc. The old testament has a lot on Jehovah and angels interacting with man. That era is past ( but some out of ignorance hold on to that), because of the spilling of that precious blood. Man and God can relate one on one - Physically and Spiritually. The Tabernacle of Jehovah God and His Christ have now been established on the planet. As it is in heaven, so it is now on earth!
I notice some posters say this is JW doctrine. No, it's not. JW do not believe that Christ is also God. But Let me assure you that of all the Christian denominations, the one closest to the accurate knowledge of the truth is JW and I have not endorsed them, but among some bad apples, you are bound to find one perhaps good enough for tasting. JW is in that ballpark. The others are really inaccurate and therefore do not have the Holy Spirit.
I will not be tedious unto you. A word is sufficient unto the wise. He or she who have ears let them hear. May the Lord bless the typing of his Holy words in this forum.Amen.
If you misunderstand the fact that New testament scripture was based on Greek language and that the original Jewish pronunciations were changed in Greek and later in English, then I have a problem following your thoughts on other topics. Its not even an issue for debate. Once you throw up stuff like this, it tells me that
a) You pick and choose what scripture to believe.
b) You panel beat scripture to fit your own view.
Please , please educate your self on the origins of scripture. For you to state in this knowledge forum that his new name is Jesus, which is the same name he answered in his advent, is putting down the word of God. Did Jesus not know he answered Jesus in his former advent? Did John not know the name Jesus? If the same Jesus tells him about a new name, it means that there is a new name and whether it fits with your thinking or understanding it does not matter. It is simply what it is. He does not need anyone approval for his word to come to pass!
Isaiah 62 also foresaw this new name:
Seems to me that you ignore the word of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Why? Immerse yourself in his word, and ask him for understanding. He will give it to you.
2) Again you confuse "manifestation of the Spirit" with dwelling of the Comforter. I never discussed manifestation of spiritual gifts. The coming of the comforter, his tasks were said by Jesus whom you say you believe. The spirit being inside you leads to a manifestation of the gifts in your life, but it does not stop the Comforter from dwelling with you. The Comforter is God the Father, who is also Christ as Christ is a bonafide part of the Godhead. Christ in his lifetime could not lead us to the accurate knowledge of the truth. That was not his assignment. He completed his assignment by shedding of his precious blood and then before exiting he told you that a Comforter would come who will:
a) Dwell with you
b) Live inside you
c) teach you and lead you to the accurate knowledge of the truth
d) Foretell the future
Now have you been taught by this Comforter? Have you asked God to reveal this Comforter to you or you believe everything ends and begins with Jesus? Where was Jesus when the Spirt was alone? Where was the son, when the Holy Spirit was walking on top of the waters? Jesus was the first creation of God and he was created as a part of Godhead (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). Jesus never contested headship/ownership with his Father. Jesus always acknowledged his Father as the source of all things, himself included. In the heavens the offices are known, Father , Son both united in the Holy Spirit. Please read (John 17: 1-5) As a result of his sacrifice, he has been exalted and given a promotion - a new rank, a new name, and at the mention of that name everything in heaven and on earth must bow.(Philip 2: 6-8). The question was asked in the heavens : who will go and save mankind? The heavens was quiet, not even the angels volunteered. Our Lord Jesus Christ stood up and said ,"Father send me, I will go and save mankind". He was told that he will be tortured, he will be mocked, he will be beaten and finally he will die, but he insisted that he wanted to go, a reminder of his unflinching love for man (the only creatures made in God's image). That sacrifice brought a lot of benefits to mankind and brought an everlasting glory to the Son, to the extent that now, he bears a new name : He is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, the iron Rod Ruler. In this dispensation, the whole world must bow down and worship him. Watch as events unfold, but I am assuring you that he is already on earth, like a thief at night. He is working, but the world would soon know him as he is revealed.
The template is there in the scripture, do not ignore it. Do not turn it to correspond to your earthly knowledge. There is only one universal truth. All that will happen and has happened can be summarised in the parable of the wicked husbandmen. Mathew 21: 33-44. Once you understand that, everything becomes clearer.
Jehovah Witness et al.
My opinion on JW is that nobody can witness for Jehovah God. So how can man appoint himself as a witness to God? Note I said Jehovah God, because Jehovah is an angel of God. There are many Jehovahs eg - Jehovah Jireh is an angel of the forest etc. The old testament has a lot on Jehovah and angels interacting with man. That era is past ( but some out of ignorance hold on to that), because of the spilling of that precious blood. Man and God can relate one on one - Physically and Spiritually. The Tabernacle of Jehovah God and His Christ have now been established on the planet. As it is in heaven, so it is now on earth!
I notice some posters say this is JW doctrine. No, it's not. JW do not believe that Christ is also God. But Let me assure you that of all the Christian denominations, the one closest to the accurate knowledge of the truth is JW and I have not endorsed them, but among some bad apples, you are bound to find one perhaps good enough for tasting. JW is in that ballpark. The others are really inaccurate and therefore do not have the Holy Spirit.
I will not be tedious unto you. A word is sufficient unto the wise. He or she who have ears let them hear. May the Lord bless the typing of his Holy words in this forum.Amen.
I have not read all, but what I read is enough, praise the Lord you have exposed yourself, anyone that has the Holy Spirit will know who you are. There is nothing to add.
pick and choose what scripture to believe. and panel beat scripture to fit your own view.
Let me answer that. If I Pick and, or, Choose scriptures to believe, are not all of God's scriptures good to believe?. if there are some scriptures of God that I should not believe, please post them.
and as for paneling, I'm only answering your scriptures. if you go there, so can I.
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Please , please educate your self on the origins of scripture. For you to state in this knowledge forum that his new name is Jesus, which is the same name he answered in his advent, is putting down the word of God.
first off, I understand the new name. his Hebrew name is, "YESHUA". and the name that John and the rest of the Israelites, and the Greeks, as a matter of fact, did not know is "JESUS". and the name that he will return in is Jesus, which is now KNOWN, but not at that time. scripture, Acts 1:11 "Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven”. this same, "YESHUA”, whom they KNEW at that time is now KNOWN, in English “JESUS”. that's why it is GIVEN unto them. that’s the New Name, in English. that SAME, "YESHUA”, “JESUS” will return.
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Isaiah 62 also foresaw this new name:
I believe you might need to read that scripture again, Isaiah 62:2 "And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name”.
I don’t believe this is talking about God’s new name. but the new name of those who believe in him. and those who believe in him are called “Christians”. the scripture states, “thou shalt be called”. not God, but those who believe in him shall be called by a new name.
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Seems to me that you ignore the word of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Why? Immerse yourself in his word, and ask him for understanding. He will give it to you.
since you said, "Seems to me ". that's your personal opinion, so I'll leave it there.
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2) Again you confuse "manifestation of the Spirit" with dwelling of the Comforter
without the Spirit there is no MAMIFESTATION.
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Jehovah Witness et al.
My opinion on JW is that nobody can witness for Jehovah God. So how can man appoint himself as a witness to God? Note I said Jehovah God, because Jehovah is an angel of God.
what any of this have to do with the topic at hand. if you want to talk about those things, start a topic about that, which I would be more that glad to discuss withy you on. (smile).
now the topic "'Is Rapture really Biblical". a gathering together when Christ come YES.
When I say you pick and choose scriptures, I mean you choose not to believe some scriptures because it does not conform to your view. All scriptures are given for profit of believers, but to understand scriptures you need to be in Spirit. I am discouraged to take this argument forward because of your denial of a simple scripture or willful wrong interpretation of such a simple picture. The name of Our Lord was known to John the Divine, before he was given those visions at Patmos. The Lord clearly told him he will come with a new name in a new Jerusalem.
The name Yashua is Hebrew and scripture was in Greek and Aramic and those languages have their own meaning of Yashua. English translations came later, and the English pronunciation of His name has always been Jesus. I am sorry, but if you argue this fact, I will have no basis to move our arguments forward, because it is essentially pointless. I would like you to understand that the name Jesus had been in use even in old documents of the Roman empire, where Pilate was made to answer for the death of Jesus in the courts of Ceaser, so we have independent verification that there was a man called Jesus (Yashua) in Roman-Greek history who was killed and who resurrected on the 3rd day. If he says that in his 2nd advent, he will come with a new name, it means exactly that, not subject to any other interpretation. If that new name is Jesus, then how is it new? The Romans knew him with that, just like the Anglo Saxons. They knew him with that before John was shown the vision in Patmos. If he says he will come in a new Jerusalem, then it is so as well. It cannot be the present Jerusalem under contention. Jesus himself said the same thing in Mather 21:
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43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
Note the word, "shall". It is an event already determined in heaven and must manifest on earth. Rev 12:5, Isa 9:6, Isa 11, Isa 63 and 65 all confirm Christ's statement. Anywhere the King resides is called Jerusalem. Jerusalem means the Land of the King (Jeru Salem). So in his second manifestation, any land he comes from is a new Jerusalem, because he is the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords. It becomes Zion.
You will notice that the Bible is a consistent document and that Christ does not contradict himself. He already told the Jews point blank that the Kingdom of God in the final dispensation which we are now will be taken away from them. In Rev 3:12, it was further clarified. Isaiah 65 prophesied the same thing:
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1 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.
My brother/sister, today like yesterday if your hear his voice do not resist the word of God. The same word we reject will come back to chastise us. You are a child of God. I have given you the template, let the Spirit do the rest and lead you to the accurate knowledge of the truth. There are many things out there, but there is only one truth. That truth is what I have tried to unveil to you. As you grow in your christian faith, I will urge you to accept baptism ( baptism of the Holy Spirit), have love for your fellow human being, forgive those who offended you and all will be well with you.
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believe you might need to read that scripture again, Isaiah 62:2 "And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name”.
I don’t believe this is talking about God’s new name. but the new name of those who believe in him. and those who believe in him are called “Christians”. the scripture states, “thou shalt be called”. not God, but those who believe in him shall be called by a new name.
Isaiah's writings have a uniqueness about them. Sometimes he is reporting, sometimes in the same chapter he is narrating (speaking directly in first person). So in that context, examine Isa 63:
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1 Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.
2 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?
3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.
4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
Isaiah had seen a vision of God coming from among the Edomites (reportage in the bolded portion), and God himself responds to his question (the normal font), without Isaiah making it like a quote. It is easy to confuse the writing and misinterpret it as if Isaiah is the one speaking throughout the verses.
Even if you dispute Isa 62 ( am amazed because it said "thou', not "they" , and Christians were not given the name by God in the Acts), have a look at what Christ said about his second coming. He made it clear that like Noah he will be rejected and suffer many things Luke 17:
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22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it. 23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them. 24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. 25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 but the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
If he will suffer many things Like Noah, certainly he will already be with us, but we ('knowledgeable' folks) would reject and ignore him. That is why it is said he comes like a thief. A thief sneaks into your house and you will not know - well except you are on the lookout! The kingdom of God is the Noah's Ark of our generation. You go in Spiritually into this Ark, not physically as in the days of Noah. Your saving your soul depends on if you are in that spiritual Ark. Those trumpets that are meant to sound actually sound spiritually, not physically. "Thy Kingdom come", which we pray everyday, has now been fulfilled. The 'carcase' (Holy Spirit) is on earth surrounded by the "eagles" (children of God, Mathew 24:28). They (the eagles) serve him day and night and abide by his words as was written in Rev 5:11-14, and Dan 7:9-13. Understand that the 'generation' of our Lord Jesus Christ lasted till 2001. Every 2000 years is a spiritual generation. We are born in the generation that have rejected him a second time. We are like the Pharisees, have a zeal to serve but in our own way, not with Godly humility or piety. They were expecting the Christ, yet when he came, they attacked him and eventually killed him as was written of them. Yet they were the ones that claimed to understand all existing scriptures then! We give heed to wrong doctrines of men, not the correct doctrines from God, we end up holding the wrong end of the stick. But there are still elects of God to be found in every nation.
The 666 is already in operation, since the days of the apostles. It is called the rule of man. The rule of man is in direct opposition to the rule of God. Almost all the world religions are collectively in charge of the political destinies of there areas of influence. Their doctrines and practices are inaccurate because they are essentially doctrines of men and hence they are in direct opposition to the doctrines of the Holy Spirit. They are summarized as the 666. However, when you are baptized of the Holy Spirit, the seal of living God is stamped on your forehead and your understanding changes. You are no longer part of the worldly system of things. To confuse them further in their own devices, God empowered them to do miracles even in his name. but at the very end, he tells them "I know you not".
Again, Luke 18:
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8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
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30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power andgreat glory.
Quote:
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
Quote:
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
If he comes as Jesus, surely he will find faith among folks today. But if he comes with a new name, in a new Jerusalem, how will the world know him? You can now understand why Jesus said that folks would mourn when they see the sign of the son of man in the heaven and when he is revealed. He had earlier informed them in John 14 that the world will not know him, but only his chosen will know him, see him, and he will live among them. The wisdom of God is different from that of man. In the Holy books before, he was to be called Emmanuel meaning God with us. But when it was time for him to be born an instruction was given for him to be called Jesus.
When he is revealed to the world, it will be a terrible situation. Note that you reveal only that which was in existence, hidden from the world. The thief that came at night , now made known to all! Why do we want to wait for that day? Why are we still expecting someone who is in our midst to descend from the sky? Someone who had promised that "this generation shall not pass away before he comes into his kingdom". The Jews are still awaiting Elijah to descend from the sky, and did not know that he was already in their midst. John the baptist was the Elijah who was to come. Should we in this generation be making the same mistake? Even when the two angels who appeared to the disciples querried the disciples on "why" they were looking up into the sky. If that action was queried then, it means it was not necessary to expect him from the sky anymore. He came as a human and left as a human, he will come back as a human being. The spirit will once again be made flesh, it had happened before, it will happen again. Christ the same, yesterday, today and forevermore.
On this note, be aware that it is only the spirit of the anti-Christ that claims that Christ has not come in the flesh. That statement is part of the everlasting gospel and is valid even now. Go ahead, be waiting for Him to crash-land, but untill doomsday, no none, repeat, no one will crash-land, neither will anyone rapture to meet him in the skies. Why did he create you on earth? You are meant to rule the earth with him and to serve him! Arise and take back your destiny for he has conquered for us through his blood! Thank you Lord Jesus Christ, thank you Holy Spirit, Thank you Father!
May God help us all and bless the typing of his Holy words!
When I say you pick and choose scriptures, I mean you choose not to believe some scriptures because it does not conform to your view. All scriptures are given for profit of believers, but to understand scriptures you need to be in Spirit. I am discouraged to take this argument forward because of your denial of a simple scripture or willful wrong interpretation of such a simple picture. The name of Our Lord was known to John the Divine, before he was given those visions at Patmos. The Lord clearly told him he will come with a new name in a new Jerusalem.
The name Yashua is Hebrew and scripture was in Greek and Aramic and those languages have their own meaning of Yashua. English translations came later, and the English pronunciation of His name has always been Jesus. I am sorry, but if you argue this fact, I will have no basis to move our arguments forward, because it is essentially pointless. I would like you to understand that the name Jesus had been in use even in old documents of the Roman empire, where Pilate was made to answer for the death of Jesus in the courts of Ceaser, so we have independent verification that there was a man called Jesus (Yashua) in Roman-Greek history who was killed and who resurrected on the 3rd day. If he says that in his 2nd advent, he will come with a new name, it means exactly that, not subject to any other interpretation. If that new name is Jesus, then how is it new? The Romans knew him with that, just like the Anglo Saxons. They knew him with that before John was shown the vision in Patmos. If he says he will come in a new Jerusalem, then it is so as well. It cannot be the present Jerusalem under contention. Jesus himself said the same thing in Mather 21:
Note the word, "shall". It is an event already determined in heaven and must manifest on earth. Rev 12:5, Isa 9:6, Isa 11, Isa 63 and 65 all confirm Christ's statement. Anywhere the King resides is called Jerusalem. Jerusalem means the Land of the King (Jeru Salem). So in his second manifestation, any land he comes from is a new Jerusalem, because he is the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords. It becomes Zion.
You will notice that the Bible is a consistent document and that Christ does not contradict himself. He already told the Jews point blank that the Kingdom of God in the final dispensation which we are now will be taken away from them. In Rev 3:12, it was further clarified. Isaiah 65 prophesied the same thing:
My brother/sister, today like yesterday if your hear his voice do not resist the word of God. The same word we reject will come back to chastise us. You are a child of God. I have given you the template, let the Spirit do the rest and lead you to the accurate knowledge of the truth. There are many things out there, but there is only one truth. That truth is what I have tried to unveil to you. As you grow in your christian faith, I will urge you to accept baptism ( baptism of the Holy Spirit), have love for your fellow human being, forgive those who offended you and all will be well with you.
Isaiah's writings have a uniqueness about them. Sometimes he is reporting, sometimes in the same chapter he is narrating (speaking directly in first person). So in that context, examine Isa 63:
Isaiah had seen a vision of God coming from among the Edomites (reportage in the bolded portion), and God himself responds to his question (the normal font), without Isaiah making it like a quote. It is easy to confuse the writing and misinterpret it as if Isaiah is the one speaking throughout the verses.
Even if you dispute Isa 62 ( am amazed because it said "thou', not "they" , and Christians were not given the name by God in the Acts), have a look at what Christ said about his second coming. He made it clear that like Noah he will be rejected and suffer many things Luke 17:
If he will suffer many things Like Noah, certainly he will already be with us, but we ('knowledgeable' folks) would reject and ignore him. That is why it is said he comes like a thief. A thief sneaks into your house and you will not know - well except you are on the lookout! The kingdom of God is the Noah's Ark of our generation. You go in Spiritually into this Ark, not physically as in the days of Noah. Your saving your soul depends on if you are in that spiritual Ark. Those trumpets that are meant to sound actually sound spiritually, not physically. "Thy Kingdom come", which we pray everyday, has now been fulfilled. The 'carcase' (Holy Spirit) is on earth surrounded by the "eagles" (children of God, Mathew 24:28). They (the eagles) serve him day and night and abide by his words as was written in Rev 5:11-14, and Dan 7:9-13. Understand that the 'generation' of our Lord Jesus Christ lasted till 2001. Every 2000 years is a spiritual generation. We are born in the generation that have rejected him a second time. We are like the Pharisees, have a zeal to serve but in our own way, not with Godly humility or piety. They were expecting the Christ, yet when he came, they attacked him and eventually killed him as was written of them. Yet they were the ones that claimed to understand all existing scriptures then! We give heed to wrong doctrines of men, not the correct doctrines from God, we end up holding the wrong end of the stick. But there are still elects of God to be found in every nation.
The 666 is already in operation, since the days of the apostles. It is called the rule of man. The rule of man is in direct opposition to the rule of God. Almost all the world religions are collectively in charge of the political destinies of there areas of influence. Their doctrines and practices are inaccurate because they are essentially doctrines of men and hence they are in direct opposition to the doctrines of the Holy Spirit. They are summarized as the 666. However, when you are baptized of the Holy Spirit, the seal of living God is stamped on your forehead and your understanding changes. You are no longer part of the worldly system of things. To confuse them further in their own devices, God empowered them to do miracles even in his name. but at the very end, he tells them "I know you not".
Again, Luke 18:
If he comes as Jesus, surely he will find faith among folks today. But if he comes with a new name, in a new Jerusalem, how will the world know him? You can now understand why Jesus said that folks would mourn when they see the sign of the son of man in the heaven and when he is revealed. He had earlier informed them in John 14 that the world will not know him, but only his chosen will know him, see him, and he will live among them. The wisdom of God is different from that of man. In the Holy books before, he was to be called Emmanuel meaning God with us. But when it was time for him to be born an instruction was given for him to be called Jesus.
When he is revealed to the world, it will be a terrible situation. Note that you reveal only that which was in existence, hidden from the world. The thief that came at night , now made known to all! Why do we want to wait for that day? Why are we still expecting someone who is in our midst to descend from the sky? Someone who had promised that "this generation shall not pass away before he comes into his kingdom". The Jews are still awaiting Elijah to descend from the sky, and did not know that he was already in their midst. John the baptist was the Elijah who was to come. Should we in this generation be making the same mistake? Even when the two angels who appeared to the disciples querried the disciples on "why" they were looking up into the sky. If that action was queried then, it means it was not necessary to expect him from the sky anymore. He came as a human and left as a human, he will come back as a human being. The spirit will once again be made flesh, it had happened before, it will happen again. Christ the same, yesterday, today and forevermore.
On this note, be aware that it is only the spirit of the anti-Christ that claims that Christ has not come in the flesh. That statement is part of the everlasting gospel and is valid even now. Go ahead, be waiting for Him to crash-land, but untill doomsday, no none, repeat, no one will crash-land, neither will anyone rapture to meet him in the skies. Why did he create you on earth? You are meant to rule the earth with him and to serve him! Arise and take back your destiny for he has conquered for us through his blood! Thank you Lord Jesus Christ, thank you Holy Spirit, Thank you Father!
May God help us all and bless the typing of his Holy words!
we're way off topic. and too I have no clue as to what you're saying here. sorry my bad, ok. but to say one thing concerning the Rapture as you call it. I see a gathering of the Lord's people, scripture,
2 Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him. and Matt 24:31, 1Thess 4:15-17, 1Thess 1:10, 1John 2:28, Mark 13:27. But this occurs at his coming.
Very good points. The issue of being raised (rapture) at some point should really not be the issue. It is the other baggage that is the problem. Prior to the Trib, during the trib or after the trib and yes leaving your clothes behind.
The hope is the resurrection of YOU, not a part of you but ALL of you. Kinda limits it to one resurrection/rapture/raising
Thanks....
1 Thess. 4 is not about being snatched off to heaven it's about the Bridegroom coming for His Bride in the final 'stage' of the Jewish wedding customs [Nissuin and means 'to carry.'] It's also the same as the parable of the wise and foolish virgins in Matt. 25:
1 ¶ Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight *there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
*it was the custom for one of the grooms 'party' to go ahead of the bridegroom, and shout , "Behold, the bridegroom comes!"
Here's the 'shout' [and th shofar/trump of God] as mentioned in Thess:
1 Thess. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and *with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
*After the 'shout' was the sounding of the shofar. When this trump sounded the Bride was lifted up/carried and entire wedding processional would go through the streets of the city to the bride's house. The groom's men would again set up the canopy, and once again the couple would stand under the canopy, say a blessing over the cup of wine, and finalized their promises and vows.
See also John chap. 14 for the same 'theme' where the 'groom' gives his future 'bride' a token/gift [comforter] etc.
Last edited by mshipmate; 03-28-2014 at 09:22 PM..
I believe that if we are hungering and thirsting after righteousness our Savior promised that we SHALL be filled [with the Holy Spirit - if we truly want His will to be done in us.]
1st Thess. 4 v 17 connects 'caught up ' with 'clouds'
Jesus was Not caught up while alive on earth in the clouds. Jesus was Not caught up until ' after ' his resurrection and ascension to heaven. - Acts 1 v 9
Meeting in the air for Jesus' spiritual ' brothers ' [ 1st Thess 4 v13; 1st Cor. 15 v 50; Matthew 25 v 40 ] would be at the time of their death - 1st Cor. 15 v 52 - at the sound of the resurrection trumpet's call.- 1st Thess. 4 v 16
Hi Matthew 4:4, why do you say that "Meeting in the air for Jesus' spiritual brothers would be at the time of their death"? especially when Paul says:
1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 (14) For, if we are believing that Jesus died and rose, thus also, those who are
put to repose, will God, through Jesus, lead forth together with Him." (15) For this we are saying to you
by the word of the Lord, that we, the living, who are surviving to the presence of the Lord, should by no
means outstrip those who are put to repose, (16) for the Lord Himself will be descending from heaven with
a shout of command, with the voice of the Chief Messenger, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in
Christ shall be rising first, (17) Thereupon we, the living who are surviving, shall at the same time be
snatched away together with them in clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And thus shall we always be
together with the Lord."
Paul shows it is an all together at the same time, meeting the Lord in the air, not a one at a time thing.
It doesn't say as soon as you die you meet the Lord in the air. It says "the dead" (plural "dead") must come out of their graves and those living, AT THE SAME TIME meet the Lord in the air.
Jesus absolutely was alive when He ascended into heaven. He actually ascended twice. Right after He came out of the tomb He told Mary not to touch Him for He had not yet ascended to the Father. That was a secret ascension. Then later, He told Thomas to put his fingers into the holes in his hands and Thomas' hand into His side. So He must have ascended. Then after 40 days He ascended again.
Hi Matthew 4:4, why do you say that "Meeting in the air for Jesus' spiritual brothers would be at the time of their death"? especially when Paul says:
1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 (14) For, if we are believing that Jesus died and rose, thus also, those who are
put to repose, will God, through Jesus, lead forth together with Him." (15) For this we are saying to you
by the word of the Lord, that we, the living, who are surviving to the presence of the Lord, should by no
means outstrip those who are put to repose, (16) for the Lord Himself will be descending from heaven with
a shout of command, with the voice of the Chief Messenger, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in
Christ shall be rising first, (17) Thereupon we, the living who are surviving, shall at the same time be
snatched away together with them in clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And thus shall we always be
together with the Lord."
Paul shows it is an all together at the same time, meeting the Lord in the air, not a one at a time thing.
It doesn't say as soon as you die you meet the Lord in the air. It says "the dead" (plural "dead") must come out of their graves and those living, AT THE SAME TIME meet the Lord in the air.
Jesus absolutely was alive when He ascended into heaven. He actually ascended twice. Right after He came out of the tomb He told Mary not to touch Him for He had not yet ascended to the Father. That was a secret ascension. Then later, He told Thomas to put his fingers into the holes in his hands and Thomas' hand into His side. So He must have ascended. Then after 40 days He ascended again.
Very interesting post. Those who believe in a secret rapture of the church to heaven, later to be followed by Christ coming back to earth the 2nd time before the Millinnenium ignore the words of Paul in Thes. 4:[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. This describes perfectly the ONLY 2nd coming of Christ at the beginning of the Millinnium with Satan being bound for Christ's 1000 year rule on the earth, after which Satan will be loosed for a short while, before his being banished to hell forever. Jesus will then lay down all His rule and authority and the righteous will be taken up to the 3rd heaven as co-heirs with Christ, where God will be seen as all in all.
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