Is Rapture really Bibilical?

[Marlbron]

Originally Posted by Eusebius

No, we won't be with Him forever in the sky.
We will be "transported into the kingdom of the Son of His love."

We will be changed in the twinkling of an eye from earth bound humans to celestial bodies to equip us to live among the celestials:

1Co_15:48 Such as the soilish one is, such are those also who are soilish, and such as the Celestial One, such are those also who are celestials."

Eph_1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who blesses us with every spiritual blessing among the celestials, in Christ,

Eph_1:20 which is operative in the Christ, rousing Him from among the dead and seating Him at His right hand among the celestials,

Eph_2:6 and rouses us together and seats us together among the celestials, in Christ Jesus,

Eph_3:10 that now may be made known to the sovereignties and the authorities among the celestials, through the ecclesia, the multifarious wisdom of God,

Eph_6:12 for it is not ours to wrestle with blood and flesh, but with the sovereignties, with the authorities, with the world-mights of this darkness, with the spiritual forces of wickedness among the celestials."

We will have part in this administration to head up all in the heavens . . . the vast starry reaches of space as we are told in Ephesians 1:9,10 while at the same time the Jews remain on the earth.




No quite there yet friend in your understanding but you are getting close. Both Paul and John were caught up in spirit to see future things. But one should not interpret eveything by one verse. You see, God won't open up the graves of believers and have them all come out of their graves only for them to experience a spiritual catching away. Our bodies will be changed to equip us for the celestial regions.



No, "air" means that which surrounds the earth. It is "up" not "on." "Clouds" tells us it is above the earth, not on the earth. First we are caught up in the air and then we are transported to celestial regions.

".....Thy kingdom come". Does it come in heaven or on earth?


Thank God because you have not shown from your write up any quote from the Bible teaching rapture. The discuss on celestial bodies, you have misunderstood.

if he told you that the righteous will inherit the earth, why do you then hope to rapture? Will you inherit the earth after the rapture? Will you not be forever with him in the sky? When will you come down to earth? And I mean that literally by the way.

[Robert M Prince]

Originally Posted by Eusebius

Hi Robert. Interesting post you gave above.

I've been thinking about this every thing about "spiritual bodies." Does the phrase "spiritual bodies" mean we will be "spirit beings without bodies"? I don't think so.

Look at it this way: Right now we have a soulish body. The bible says so. Does this mean we don't have a body but are only comprised of a soul? No. It means our body is basically controlled by soulish sensations.

Likewise, a spiritual body means our body in the future will be controlled by the Spirit.

When Christ comes for the believers of the nations He is going to resurrect the dead believers out of their graves in bodily form. They will receive God's spirit and will be controlled by spirit. It doesn't mean they will come out of their graved bodily and then drop their bodies to become spirit beings. Why would God go to all that trouble to resurrect their bodies if they will just drop them for something else?

Excellent post Eusebius,
I'm inclined to believe that when our Lord returns to the earth that the dead in
Christ will rise first in their glorified Spiritual bodies, and that the righteous who are alive at His return will drop their corruptible bodies and be transformed into glorified incorruptible bodies and that we will reign together with Christ for a thousand year primer with no Satan to tempt us, and then Satan rises up at the end of the Millennium to be judged and cast into hell forever, at which time Christ will lay down all His rule and authority and we will enter the third heaven to be coheirs with Christ forever and ever and ever. Jesus said Blessed are the pure in heart for they SHALL see God.. See also Heb. 12:[14] Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

[Heartsong]

Originally Posted by Marlbron

101C

I guess I need to start from the begining to get to number 3.

1) Rev 3:12 speaks for itself, so just read that up. And if you believe that he comes with a new name, it means that he must be born on earth, ie His Spirit must be made flesh via the womb of a woman. Like it was before. Rev 12 : 5, therefore confirms why it was not necessary for the disciples to stand steadily gazing into the sky (Acts 1: 10 -12). It was not necessary, he would never descend from the sky, he comes as a human being like me and you, but he is not given the spirit in measure like us humans.

Despite Adam's sin, God never allowed an angel to rule over his kingdom. He still gave authority and kingship to man. That was Paul writing in Heb 1 vs 5



Also see Heb 2



So he will rule the earth as man and be born as confirmed in Rev 12: 5, Is 9:6, and Heb 1:6

Matter of fact, man alone of all God's creation is made in the image of God. Remember, " Let us make man in our own image".

2) What I am saying in 2 is also simple. Jesus made it clear that he had to go before the Holy Spirit comes. Why was that? It was because with him in the world, the next assignment cannot begin. The Holy Spirit is actually God himself. Since Christ sacrificed his blood, God now came to live inside us to help us do things that we could not do. Notice the wonderful advancement humankind have made in all facets of life after Christ exited. Those things were in fact done by man through the inspiration of the Spirit. Now to your point about explaining the duality of the Holy Spiirt, I invite you to read carefully with Faith, John 14



The folks who will know the Comforter are his elects. The rest unbelievers will not know him. The Comforter , who is the Holy Spirit will have ability to dwell with and live inside, the elects. In other words, the Comforter is both physically seen and spiritual. Therefore he has duality of existence. Christ exhibited such duality of existence after his death and resurrection. He was able to 'appear' when doors were locked, heard conversations (Thomas) etc, but again he "denied" being a pure spirit as he had "flesh and bones".

The Comforter shall teach, he shall instruct, he shall hear... signifying a humanly existence as well. God the Father is the Comforter and this truth Christ secretly alluded to in the below verses: John16



Pay attention to verse 15, Christ clarifies that the Comforter was actually his Father. If you see him after a little while because he goes to the Father, it means the Father is the one coming. The Comforter is coming to do an even bigger assignment than Christ. To teach man and to show us things which Christ could not/did not show us. Who is that greater teacher than Christ if not the Father? That is why we must realize that Christ cannot come in a vacuum. He must come through his Father who is the owner of the kingdom. You will now understand the parable of the wicked husbandmen: Mathew 21



Note the sequence of events between the landowner, who is God and the husbandmen who are the people of the world, the movers and shakers, the "anti-christ" . The Lord of the vineyard must come with all his family including his son and his elects. Those are the ones to rule with Him.

3) At a stretch you are right in saying that the days of the tribulation started shortly after resurrection, because the Spirit was released then. I would not venture that far, because it was a predicted tribulation for the disciples of God, a judgement on Israel for killing the Christ (Roman invasion 70 AD), plus other localized events. When we talk about the tribulation start, we mean the start of profound events that shook the world as a whole. Why is 1918 significant? Firstly end of the first world war which started in 1914.The whole world was affected by the deadly influenza that killed and killed and killed until 1918. That year marked the physical entrance of the Holy Spirit on earth. His coming led to the liberation of Isreal in 1948 (Isa 11:11), leading to the setting up of the temple of God in 1958.

The bible confirms that God will be on earth in the last days first to set up his kingdom (Dan 2:44, MAthew 21: 33-41, Rev 4 up to Rev 7), to handover the kingdom to His Christ and for judgement (Rev 19). If you read Revelation carefully, you will observe that the temple of Jehovah God and His Christ are already set up before the seals are opened and during the tribulations. We are now well into the release of the 6th. I should emphasize that the events in Revelations are not happening chapter by chapter like some of us think.

Speaking of the 6th Seal, I just read a little bit on that here:
Time has Run Out

I'm not a member of the organized Church of God, but nevertheless, I did find this piece interesting. I do feel that we are at the very doors of something earth-shaking, but I don't know the day or the hour or where I stand in regard to God's last judgment. But He certainly has my undivided attention at this time. Some people will tell you that Universalist believers do not believe in judgement, but that is absolutely not true. I believe God will judge every person and that his judgments are just. Many in the church who have been taught that we have no personal responsibility to grow into a mature tree and be sanctified believe that God will not judge them. This is clearly demonstrated by the careless way many professing Christians walk and talk.

[Robert M Prince]

Click in Bible Talk link //www.city-data.com/forum/group...ible-talk.html for a sermon summary which describes some of the Millineal eschatology.

[His Child]

Thank you Choir Loft for your succinct and provocative summary of thinking leading to our current concept of "The Rapture." While I am a newbie in the Lord's crew, I am studying feverishly! One concept I have repeatedly found myself circling around is The Rapture. I am not a "Linear Thinker," but rather more so in the "Circular realm of Intuitives," so I am struggling with the logic of building hope for a "physical" Rapture that I cannot seem to find in the scriptures. I can't easily dismiss Paul's warning that the letter of the law kills and so loosely put: therefore we use NOT human wisdom, but rather spiritual words that convey spiritual truths (1 Co 2:13) (Additionally, Paul describes his personal Rapture (Harpazo) beautifully 2 Co 12:2). I am also struck that the Jews so anxiously awaited a Messiah that would rally the physical troops, pursuit physical vindication and bring home a physical victory for them. Are Rapture-believers of today not parallel in their expectations? I ask sincerely, because I am searching. I too would love to be physically rescued during these trying times, but I cannot seem to find that in the scriptures. Thanks to all here, your discussion is very helpful to those of us searching!

[openmike]

Rapture is a manmade descriptive adjective to counter " being caught up" the original scripture reference.
Like Trinity and triune is another way to describe the biblical " Godhead" ( example)

[Hannibal Flavius]

There is not a rapture like people think, there is a set program for the bridegroom to follow all the details of the wedding. Rosh Hashanah is the wedding day, and the bridegroom gets betrothed to his bride and then he leaves to build a place for them to live in{not mansions}.

The bridegroom comes back when he has finished his work and he comes to surprise everyone to take his wife away on the honeymoon.


But all the scriptures of a rapture are not speaking of a rapture.

Two men in a bed, one taken, the other left behind is speaking of a single person being cut in half and separated as two men are divided, just as Elijah and Elisha were divided.

Two women at the wheel is a single person, and the problem with these people is obvious, it cannot be two men, and it cannot be two women.

You are betrothed to Christ and you are to become as a pure virgin. You are to be submissive to your betrothed as he is a guiding spirit, but if you are two men, you have a problem BECAUSE it's not a man and a wife. If you are two woman, you have a problem because it's not a man and a wife.

If you are seen as two men, it means that you wanted to be a king and ruler when you should have been a submissive servant, and so you are cut in half and appointed your place amongst the sinners just as the wicked servant does not watch for his master and is then cut in half and appointed his lot amongst the sinners.

You have been made the housekeeper, and ruler over the kingdom of God to give his children meat in due season as a bride who is a virgin, but yet she is given a seed, and Christ is formed in you to raise the child you have been given.

You have to raise this child in the milk of the word in order for him to be formed in you so that he may eat the meat of the word, and this child must be fully raised so that the virgin gives birth to a full grown son who will follow Jesus as a firstfruit.


But if you go your own way and follow your fleshly desires then you wont be considered a virgin at all, but one of the sons of perdition.

YOU are the kingdom of heaven and everywhere it gives us an example of the kingdom, it is speaking of YOU.

The wicked servant who did not know the comings and goings of his master, simply does not know the times and seasons of the visitation days of the Messiah. Messiah has 7 appointed visitation days according to the marriage, and the good wife will watch and wait for the bridegroom on those appointed days. If somebody says,'' why didn't somebody tell me that I was preparing for a marriage and I was supposed to go out to meet the bridegroom?'' There will be no excuse to why a Christian does not know the times and seasons of God because these days have been observed for thousands of years and it is plainly taught in the bible that you must know and prepare for the appointed days of your God.

Antichrist comes to change the times and seasons so that the children of God do not know the days of their visitation or the promises given on those days.



Do you know that Sukkot is around the corner and you are to pray for the rain of Sukkot so that you will be blessed and given the promise of Shemini Atzereth?

Every single Christian should know and prepare for Shemini Atzereth EVERY YEAR.



Do not let Rosh Hashanah, Sukkot, and Shemini Atzereth go by this year without AT LEAST recognizing what day it is because Jesus was born on the first day of the feasts of Booths as Lord of the booths, BORN in a booth and he was circumcised on Shemini Atzereth and this only points to a future circumcision because while gentiles come up to keep the feast of booths for the nations for 7 days, those same gentiles are sent home on the great day of circumcision, and they are circumcised from the congregation BECAUSE they remained gentiles instead of seeking the adoption.

If this is the year of the Lord's favor, then the fall will come and the brides who wait upon the promise of Shemini Atzereth will receive the promised warning and they will pray just as the disciples prayed and prepared for Pentecost, and those virgins will receive the promise of Shemini Atzereth. and there you will be, whether or not you prepared, or didn't prepare, your fate and promise relies on how you will meet the bridegroom.

If you did not prepare because you do not know the visitation days of your God, then you will witness how the brides are given a double portion of spirit TWICE as powerful as what was given on Pentecost, and you will say to yourself,'' WHY O WHY DIDN"T I JUST PREPARE?''

There is no great thing to do, you don't have to go to Jerusalem and keep all the laws of the feasts, but you are to stand and watch on the days of your visitation, and this is an easy thing to do so that there is no excuse when you haven't done it.


And while the spirit was shared at the Passover Atzereth{Pentecost} it is not shared at Shemini Atzereth{conclusion day of Sukkot, just as Pentecost is the conclusion day of Passover}

Jesus came at the spring rains, the first coming where the dew fell on the disciples and they raised people from the dead, but consider what brides will be like when twice the spirit is given to mankind?



How depressed will people be when they look and see the brides of Christ filled with the Holy spirit so much that it is double what was given before?


It's like God has put all the riches of the world before you, and he made a date with you to receive the rewards of the entire globe and to make you ruler of multitudes, but you dint show up, and you will say,'' Nobody told me.''

God has instructed ALL mankind, and nobody will have an excuse for not watching for the visitation days of Christ, and they will not receive the warning or inherit the prize.