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Romans 10:9-11
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”[
John 3:3-7
3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
1 John 3:23
23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us[a] commandment
But, where does it say that we must believe that he DIED on the cross for our SINS???...
Every once in awhile Tonyx3 asks a good question. That he has no idea of what the answer is should be expected, but the question has good answers. In this case, the best answer is that a better translation of the sense of what Jesus said than "keep my commandments" would be "Do as I have taught you." The point of being under grace and not the Law is not that we are free to do the things prohibited by Law, but that we don't do the things that are harmful, NOT BECAUSE they are Law, but because they are counter to love. "The letter kills but the Spirit gives life" should be a clue to the fact that we don't wear chains of laws and regulations, but live in a demonstration nof that concern for the well-being of everyone in any situation that IS "agape love."
When we are children we need rules because we don't understand why we should not do (or should do, depending on the nature of the rule) the things covered, but when we grow in faith and knowledge and most of all in love, we should "put away childish things" and live in "the freedom we have in Christ."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
I really hate you but I am required by law to smile and tell you that I love you...
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
Which is why Law has NO value in itself without the commitment to that caring that MAKES community.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
How does one become truly righteous?...
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
One actually listens to the guidance of the Spirit. One also does not seek to MAKE others righteous, but to convince them of its value. All Law can do is MAKE them perform as if they were righteous.
Well done, nate! The bold is key. God cannot be fooled because He sees our heart and mind. Following rules does nothing for our state of mind or heart. If we are not acting out of agape love (concern for the well-being of all involved), we are not accomplishing anything.
30 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath driven thee,
2 And shalt return unto the Lord thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
3 That then the Lord thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath scattered thee. The Good Seed
4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the Lord thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
5 And the Lord thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
6 And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
7 And the Lord thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.
8 And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the Lord, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.
9 And the Lord thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the Lord will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers:
10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
16 In that I command thee this day to love the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the Lord thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
20 That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
John 14King James Version (KJV)
14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. 5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Folks love to take this verse out of context and use it against others.
John 14:15
Jesus Promises Another Helper
15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.
==========
When Jesus said if you Love me you will keep my commandments, what were his commandments??? Lets look at every example
John 13
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.
and
John 15:10-14
10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
11 “These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full. 12 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. 14 You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.
and
1 John 3:23
23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us[a] commandment.
and
1 John 4:21
21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
and
2 John 1:4-6
Walk in Christ’s Commandments
4 I rejoiced greatly that I have found some of your children walking in truth, as we received commandment from the Father. 5 And now I plead with you, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment to you, but that which we have had from the beginning: that we love one another. 6 This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.
So there we have it folks, 5 different examples that's Jesus commandments are to:
-Love God
-Love One Another as Jesus loved us, so people will know we are his disciples
-And that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ
So if we are loving God will all our mind soul and strength, loving each other, and believe Jesus died on the cross for your sins, WE ARE FOLLOWING JESUS COMMANDMENTS.
Well now, the first Four of the 10 teaches us how to love our Father, the other Six Commandments teaches how to love our neighbors,
So deal with it.
Ibe
I be a Disciple of Jesus Christ
I be in His Service
Folks love to take this verse out of context and use it against others.
John 14:15
Jesus Promises Another Helper
15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.
==========
When Jesus said if you Love me you will keep my commandments, what were his commandments??? Lets look at every example
John 13
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.
and
John 15:10-14
10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
11 “These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full. 12 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. 14 You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.
and
1 John 3:23
23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us[a] commandment.
and
1 John 4:21
21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
and
2 John 1:4-6
Walk in Christ’s Commandments
4 I rejoiced greatly that I have found some of your children walking in truth, as we received commandment from the Father. 5 And now I plead with you, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment to you, but that which we have had from the beginning: that we love one another. 6 This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.
So there we have it folks, 5 different examples that's Jesus commandments are to:
-Love God
-Love One Another as Jesus loved us, so people will know we are his disciples
-And that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ
So if we are loving God will all our mind soul and strength, loving each other, and believe Jesus died on the cross for your sins, WE ARE FOLLOWING JESUS COMMANDMENTS.
Notice in 2 John 1 4-6 It says walk in truth. As you have heard the truth is the word of God which Jesus said to remain in. Keeping the commandments is spreading the truth.
"Keep the commandments of the Lord by walking in His ways and revering Him."
The Ten Commandments written by the hand of God are meant to be kept. Would you allow your child to give you a lame excuse as to why he or she lied or stealed? Would you accept your neighbor having sex with your wife or husband? How about murder is that acceptable? So why do you frustrate the grace of God? If a man acquitted of a criminal charge, if he then commits that same criminal act again, would the judge not be frustrated in his efforts to help that person?
In reality most Christians don't realy believe that these laws have been done away with. Only that commandment 4 has been abolished. They have wrested the scriptures to their own destruction. Number four is the stumbling block!
To address much of what Jesus said, he mostly quoted from the Old Testament, mainly Deuteronomy. Even love your neighbor as yourself is found there. The law is comprised of several sections as pointed out in the Old Testament. The Ten Commandments, the statutes and judgments, and the ordinances are the three main sections. The only part of the law that was done away with are the ordinances. These were all things related to animal sacrifice, festivals etc. apply this to the "hard verses" in the New Testament that talk about "doing away with the law" and things will begin to clearify. All of these were shadows of things to come, but the body is Christ! Christ was the final atoning sacrifice that done away with animal sacrifice that pointed forward. They were only a substitute before Christ death on the cross. The festival "sabbath" days were also fulfilled during and after his life. Pentecost and Passover are just two of these. These too were fullfilled and are to be no longer practiced.
The writings of Paul are mainly looked to to say that the commandments are done away with. Peter warns of this trend to twist his writings. When you align his teachings with the rest of the bible it is then that you get what he's saying.
The deity featured in the Bible didn't write the commandments, they are a very human production, as is the deity which is a very evil entity.
Well done, nate! The bold is key. God cannot be fooled because He sees our heart and mind. Following rules does nothing for our state of mind or heart. If we are not acting out of agape love (concern for the well-being of all involved), we are not accomplishing anything.
Well done, nate! The bold is key. God cannot be fooled because He sees our heart and mind. Following rules does nothing for our state of mind or heart. If we are not acting out of agape love (concern for the well-being of all involved), we are not accomplishing anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
Disturbing, isn't it, Richard. To think all your rule following and law abiding is pointless if you are not acting out of agape love.
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