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Many other Jews claimed to be the Messiah so Jesus had no choice to was crucified to prove his point.
That he was the son of God. And that his message was therefore authentic,
You claim to be Catholic, right? What do you believe takes place in the Mass? The RCC claims to be re-presenting the body of Christ in a sacrifice. But you apparently don't believe in the sacrificial atonement?
Nope. The verse you half-quoted and twisted says nothing about our views of ourselves. In fact, the very book you tried to quote from tells us that we are made righteous not because of our opinions of ourselves.... But because Jesus died in our place. You should read it sometime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
You claim to be Catholic, right? What do you believe takes place in the Mass? The RCC claims to be re-presenting the body of Christ in a sacrifice. But you apparently don't believe in the sacrificial atonement?
You claim to be a Christian pastor . . . yet you completely misrepresent Christ's example and message of God's love. You represent as truth the ancient OT ignorance and superstitions about a jealous, vengeful God who had to be appeased by a horrendous scourging and crucifixion as a blood sacrifice because our progenitors ate a forbidden fruit!! Do you even see how absurd such a conflation of motives are for a God who is Love?? Do you even notice that Jesus displayed none of those characteristics and said when you see Him you see the Father? Do you engage in ANY form of reasoning or logic when presenting these ideas to your flock? I suspect not. It is all blind acceptance of words "written in ink" even when they completely contradict what is "written in our hearts" by God. You reject the New Covenant to retain the old.
Nope. The verse you half-quoted and twisted says nothing about our views of ourselves. In fact, the very book you tried to quote from tells us that we are made righteous not because of our opinions of ourselves.... But because Jesus died in our place. You should read it sometime.
You cannot be anything other than how you view yourself
He considered nothis own body now dead (the down fall of the christian that does so) So what did he consider?(or what was he looking at?) ? How God saw him.........and how did God see him ?, exactly........... A Father of many nations.
So if you consider yourself a sinner in your own eyes, you are not righteous in any shape or form, you never hear Abraham from moment on calling himself anything other than a Father of many nations, because in his own eyes that is how he saw himself(he believed God)and he never staggered from that viewpoint. You are ruled by what you believe you are, there is no escaping it.
You cannot be anything other than how you view yourself
He considered nothis own body now dead (the down fall of the christian that does so) So what did he consider?(or what was he looking at?) ? How God saw him.........and how did God see him ?, exactly........... A Father of many nations.
So if you consider yourself a sinner in your own eyes, you are not righteous in any shape or form, you never hear Abraham from moment on calling himself anything other than a Father of many nations, because in his own eyes that is how he saw himself(he believed God)and he never staggered from that viewpoint. You are ruled by what you believe you are, there is no escaping it.
Give up these silly doctrines of men. Look at what the Bible actually says. Our worst problem in life isn't a low self-esteem....it's that we all think too highly of ourselves and we are selfish sinners. Abraham wasnt saved by thinking he was all ha....he was credited with righteousness for believing God would keep his promise.
You claim to be a Christian pastor . . . yet you completely misrepresent Christ's example and message of God's love. You represent as truth the ancient OT ignorance and superstitions about a jealous, vengeful God who had to be appeased by a horrendous scourging and crucifixion as a blood sacrifice because our progenitors ate a forbidden fruit!! Do you even see how absurd such a conflation of motives are for a God who is Love?? Do you even notice that Jesus displayed none of those characteristics and said when you see Him you see the Father? Do you engage in ANY form of reasoning or logic when presenting these ideas to your flock? I suspect not. It is all blind acceptance of words "written in ink" even when they completely contradict what is "written in our hearts" by God. You reject the New Covenant to retain the old.
True love is to lay down your life. That's what God do. He died to redeem mankind. Your version of God is too small if you don't believe in that.
Now, are you going to let Julian answer the question? Assuming he is willing or able to, that is.
True love is to lay down your life. That's what God do. He died to redeem mankind. Your version of God is too small if you don't believe in that.
You clearly have not been reading my posts carefully. I agree that is exactly what Jesus DID . . . lay down His life for us . . . but NOT for the barbaric reason you claim. It had nothing to do with appeasing a jealous, vengeful God with blood sacrifice . . . that is savage, barbaric reasoning steeped in ancient ignorance and superstition. Christ did it in true love for us all . . . to reveal the true nature of God to our ignorant ancestors. They did not understand because their entire view of God was wrong. Christ revealed the TRUE NATURE of the Father unambiguously.
Christ smote no one and chastised his disciples who encouraged Him to rain fire down as not knowing what Spirit they were of. Christ was jealous of no one and accepting of all. Christ held vengeance for no one and forgave freely. Christ did not need to be appeased for anything by blood sacrifice. Christ endured scourging and crucifixion with love for us all . . . including His torturers and murderers. As you said it was true love . . ."No greater love" . . . than sacrificing His life to our ignorance and savagery. He forgave us because we knew not what we did.
Ask yourself, Vizio: How are these behaviors and attitudes in any way similar to the savage and barbaric descriptions and beliefs about the behaviors and attitudes of God in the OT??? How do Christ's life, teachings (Sermon on the Mount, 1 Cor 13, etc.) and unambiguous death . . . in any way confirm those barbaric beliefs about God??
Give up these silly doctrines of men. Look at what the Bible actually says. Our worst problem in life isn't a low self-esteem....it's that we all think too highly of ourselves and we are selfish sinners. Abraham wasnt saved by thinking he was all ha....he was credited with righteousness for believing God would keep his promise.
No, you have just been indoctrinated into believing that and because of that you have poor image not only of yourself but the world too. Jesus pointed out who the ones who thought highly of themselves........... Yes the Pharisees who thought they knew it all and had it all, and were open to nothing that did not agree with what they believed, and condemned every sin they saw.
Also for a Pastor to use this way of thinking upon another is shameful to the good news, how can you ever be effective in being gracious, rich in mercy, forgiving and loving towards those lost seeing them this way?, they ain't daft and know that you come not beating good news.
Give up these silly doctrines of men. Look at what the Bible actually says. Our worst problem in life isn't a low self-esteem....it's that we all think too highly of ourselves and we are selfish sinners. Abraham wasnt saved by thinking he was all ha....he was credited with righteousness for believing God would keep his promise.
Abraham declared himself a Father of many nations(Abraham) having been declared the same by God and he because of this there was evidence. Abraham would have remained Abram(fruitless)if he had not looked upon himself the way God did .........do you at least understand this ?.
You clearly have not been reading my posts carefully. I agree that is exactly what Jesus DID . . . lay down His life for us . . . but NOT for the barbaric reason you claim. It had nothing to do with appeasing a jealous, vengeful God with blood sacrifice . . . that is savage, barbaric reasoning steeped in ancient ignorance and superstition. Christ did it in true love for us all . . . to reveal the true nature of God to our ignorant ancestors. They did not understand because their entire view of God was wrong. Christ revealed the TRUE NATURE of the Father unambiguously.
Christ smote no one and chastised his disciples who encouraged Him to rain fire down as not knowing what Spirit they were of. Christ was jealous of no one and accepting of all. Christ held vengeance for no one and forgave freely. Christ did not need to be appeased for anything by blood sacrifice. Christ endured scourging and crucifixion with love for us all . . . including His torturers and murderers. As you said it was true love . . ."No greater love" . . . than sacrificing His life to our ignorance and savagery. He forgave us because we knew not what we did.
Ask yourself, Vizio: How are these behaviors and attitudes in any way similar to the savage and barbaric descriptions and beliefs about the behaviors and attitudes of God in the OT??? How do Christ's life, teachings (Sermon on the Mount, 1 Cor 13, etc.) and unambiguous death . . . in any way confirm those barbaric beliefs about God??
Matt. 26:28
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
You clearly have not been reading my posts carefully. I agree that is exactly what Jesus DID . . . lay down His life for us . . . but NOT for the barbaric reason you claim. It had nothing to do with appeasing a jealous, vengeful God with blood sacrifice . . . that is savage, barbaric reasoning steeped in ancient ignorance and superstition. Christ did it in true love for us all . . . to reveal the true nature of God to our ignorant ancestors. They did not understand because their entire view of God was wrong. Christ revealed the TRUE NATURE of the Father unambiguously.
Christ smote no one and chastised his disciples who encouraged Him to rain fire down as not knowing what Spirit they were of. Christ was jealous of no one and accepting of all. Christ held vengeance for no one and forgave freely. Christ did not need to be appeased for anything by blood sacrifice. Christ endured scourging and crucifixion with love for us all . . . including His torturers and murderers. As you said it was true love . . ."No greater love" . . . than sacrificing His life to our ignorance and savagery. He forgave us because we knew not what we did.
Ask yourself, Vizio: How are these behaviors and attitudes in any way similar to the savage and barbaric descriptions and beliefs about the behaviors and attitudes of God in the OT??? How do Christ's life, teachings (Sermon on the Mount, 1 Cor 13, etc.) and unambiguous death . . . in any way confirm those barbaric beliefs about God??
Amen Mystic. The only way they can answer the bolded is by dismissing it, excusing it or justifying it with " his ways are higher than ours". I think this Pope is actually getting the understanding that his ways are higher than ours and at least trying to follow them.
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