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Old 03-17-2008, 09:55 PM
 
Location: NC
14,876 posts, read 17,148,619 times
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Quote:
NIV) Luke 13:22-28 -- Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?"

He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.'
"But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.'
"Then you will say, 'We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.'
"But he will reply, 'I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!' "There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.

This is just one of several of Jesus' teachings on the subject. This is what the entire counsel of the Word of God speaks about. If we reject Jesus, which can only be done while alive, then we reject the one who sent him. If we deny Christ, he will deny us. There is no room in the Bible for second chances... as much as people would like to believe there would be, there isn't. I've read and re-read all the arguments posted against eternal separation and they don't jive with the entire counsel of God.

Those who believe in the eventual restoration of all understand that God is working out His plan of reconciliation for all all men as this relates to the ages. No, many will be lost in this age. All will not be saved in this age. But there are scriptures which speak of a time when all will be reconciled to God. And here are a few:


Psalms 22:
27. All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD,
And all the families of the nations will worship before You.
28. For the kingdom is the LORD'S
And He rules over the nations.
29. All the prosperous of the earth will eat and worship,
All those who go down to the dust will bow before Him,
Even he who cannot keep his soul alive



Psalms 66
4. "All the earth will worship You,
And will sing praises to You;
They will sing praises to Your name." Selah

Psalms 68:18
You have ascended on high, You have led captive Your captives;
You have received gifts among men,
Even among the rebellious also, that the LORD God may dwell there


Isaiah 25:6-8
The LORD of hosts will prepare a lavish banquet for all peoples on this mountain;
A banquet of aged wine, choice pieces with marrow,
And refined, aged wine.
7. And on this mountain He will swallow up the covering which is over all peoples,
Even the veil which is stretched over all nations.
8. He will swallow up death for all time,
And the Lord GOD will wipe tears away from all faces,
And He will remove the reproach of His people from all the earth;
For the LORD has spoken.


Isaiah 45:22-25
"Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth;
For I am God, and there is no other.
23. "I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
24. "They will say of Me, `Only in the LORD are righteousness and strength.'
Men will come to Him,
And all who were angry at Him will be put to shame.
25. "In the LORD all the offspring of Israel
Will be justified and will glory."

Zephaniah 3
8 "Therefore wait for Me," declares the LORD,
"For the day when I rise up as a witness.
Indeed, My decision is to gather nations,
To assemble kingdoms,
To pour out on them My indignation,
All My burning anger;
For all the earth will be devoured
By the fire of My zeal.
9. "For then I will give to the peoples purified lips,
That all of them may call on the name of the LORD,
To serve Him shoulder to shoulder

The above example shows what will happen as a result of God's indignation. He is not giving us a choice about whether or not we will accept this.



John 1:1-9
1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2. He was in the beginning with God.3. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.4. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.5. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.6. There came a man sent from God, whose name was John.7. He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him.8. He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.9. There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.



John 12:27-32
27. "Now My soul has become troubled; and what shall I say, `Father, save Me from this hour'? But for this purpose I came to this hour.28. "Father, glorify Your name." Then a voice came out of heaven: "I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again."29. So the crowd of people who stood by and heard it were saying that it had thundered; others were saying, "An angel has spoken to Him."30. Jesus answered and said, "This voice has not come for My sake, but for your sakes.31. "Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.32. "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."


Romans 8:18-22
18. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.19. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.20. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope21. that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.22. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.


1 Corinthians 15:16-28
16. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised;17. and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.18. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.19. If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.20. But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.21. For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.22. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.23. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,24. then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.25. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.26. The last enemy that will be abolished is death.27. For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.28. When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

Colossians 1:15-20
15. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.16. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.17. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.18. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.19. For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,20. and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

Ephesians 1: 5-10
"He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, which He lavished upon us. In all wisdom and insight He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fulness of the times, that is the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens, and things upon the earth."

John 4:14
"And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world."



The belief that God will torture the lost for all of eternity does not jive with the scriptures which speak of God's ultimate plan.


Quote:
God is pure and complete love. Pure love does not force people to accept love, either in this life or especially in the hereafter. If after a period of purgatory unbelievers "choose" to accept God's love... is it really a free choice? Was it not forced or coerced? That's exactly what it appears to me to be. God does not say "I'll leave you in hell until you choose to love me". Doesn't sound like my Heavenly Father. Doesn't sound like a God of love to me.

The scriptures speak of the eventual subjection of all to God. This tells me that somebody’s will is higher than someone elses and that the higher will is sovereign over all others. People will not remain in rebellion to God forever freely rejecting Him, if all things are to be subjected to God. No, I don’t believe that we have free choice, not if all are to eventually be subjected to Him, not if all will confess Him, and not if every knee will bow to Him. God has said that this will happen. God is love and love does what is best for those who are loved. Those who are in rebellion to God know not what they do because they are said to be lost, blind, held captive, under the domain of the god of this world. We were born into this situation and had no choice over this, of becoming a slave to sin, of becoming an enemy of God. It was inevitable and God who is said to be agape love will free these captives just as He freed us. And this is love, agape love, love that does what is best for those who are loved.

Quote:
That sounds worse than eternal separation. That sounds worse than God, my Father, who loves me soooo much that, even if it is wrong in His eyes, will let me freely, without force, choose not to accept him. We are all given that choice. God loves us infinately more than we can ever imagine and because of that love, he cannot (and IMO will not) ignore our choices. That would completely deny our identities as his creation in his very image. It would turn us into the very robots we were not created to be in the first place.

Those who are lost are not making a free choice. They are said to be lost, blinded, held captive. We cannot deny those scriptures which speak of the sovereignty of God’s will. How can opening the eyes of a blind man be worst that eternal separation? How can setting a captive free be worse than eternal separation? How turning an enemy into a friend be worse than eternal separation? When all binders and blinders are removed all will willingly choose Him.


Quote:
Just like a human parent, no matter how much they want their children to love them, cannot force their children to love them. Would my kids love me if I said "stay in this cold, dark, depressing, locked room with torment and misery until you decide to love me as I love you -- then I'll let you stay with me". Sorry, it doesn't work for us and it certainly doesn't work for God.

If we look in the scriptures we find many examples of God’s judgments being used to convince people of their need to return to Him. We were made to serve Him and Jesus has been made heir of all. If He has been made heir of all, what does our free will have to do with it? God Himself says that He will accomplish all His good pleasure. And He does not ask our permission to do this as Sovereign Creator, He has every right over all of His creatures. He is able to subject all things to Himself even all hearts. This right and this is good God bless.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 03-17-2008 at 10:34 PM..

 
Old 03-22-2008, 09:06 PM
 
Location: NC
14,876 posts, read 17,148,619 times
Reputation: 1526
Quote:
But I sometimes wonder why people who don't believe hell is eternal think that sharing the Gospel is important if everyone will be saved in the end.
Some notes I came across today:
The wages of SIN is DEATH, because sin produces destruction in our lives, causing man to live in a perished state, away from the Lord seeking fulfillment in self…But the Spirit has come that we may not reap death in sin, but that we may have life now in these ages, our time here. Look at the ages. Are they still ticking away? If so - and if you have the love of God in you - you have aionios life. Sin is death. Again, life is found in Jesus Christ who live within in his temple (us), and breaking the power of sin in our lives today, in these aions. (ages) What a precious gift we have been given, to have Christ's Spirit within us while we live in the flesh, that he gives us power over our sin, the ability to understand the things of Spirit, the gifts, and communion with God to know his heart and be united with his purpose


Merciful Truth - Eternity

God bless.
 
Old 08-31-2008, 10:22 AM
 
2,984 posts, read 3,345,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Birdy, you know I disagree with you here, I do believe the Bible teaches that hell is eternal, otherwise, why tell anyone about Jesus if they are going to be saved in the end anyway. No where in the Bible does it imply or say everyone will be saved.
I know what you believe; please point us to where the Bible teaches "hell is eternal"? You may not realize this as yet, but our God is the Source of everything, the Sustaining Force of Everything, and the Goal of everything. He alone is eternal!
 
Old 08-31-2008, 05:16 PM
 
7,784 posts, read 14,884,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy_56 View Post
He alone is eternal!
Not according to the Bible.
 
Old 08-31-2008, 08:36 PM
 
Location: God's Country
23,013 posts, read 34,374,307 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy_56 View Post
I know what you believe; please point us to where the Bible teaches "hell is eternal"? You may not realize this as yet, but our God is the Source of everything, the Sustaining Force of Everything, and the Goal of everything. He alone is eternal!
Again.....Matthew 25:41 "Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons".
Jude 1:7 "And don't forget the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns, which were filled with sexual immorality and every kind of sexual perversion. Those cities were destroyed by fire and are a warning to the eternal fire that will punish all who are evil".


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
Not according to the Bible.
AMEN! We are all live for eternity, either in Heaven or hell.
 
Old 09-01-2008, 02:48 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 6,616,363 times
Reputation: 851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy_56 View Post
You may not realize this as yet, but our God is the Source of everything, the Sustaining Force of Everything, and the Goal of everything. He alone is eternal!
That's it right there. As evidenced by this right here:

If you take the whole verse of Titus 1:2 The word aeonian is used twice, once translated as eternal and the other as world.

Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal(166-aeonian) life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world(166-aeonian)began.

Hmmmmmm....
 
Old 09-01-2008, 05:07 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 6,616,363 times
Reputation: 851



Do you know the real Jesus or a religious idol?

 
Old 10-01-2008, 03:18 PM
 
2,984 posts, read 3,345,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
That's it right there. As evidenced by this right here:

If you take the whole verse of Titus 1:2 The word aeonian is used twice, once translated as eternal and the other as world.

Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal(166-aeonian) life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world(166-aeonian)began.

Hmmmmmm....
Before= Prov

Aionios= ?? Eternal/ Everlasting ??

Chronos= Began

Before eternal began? Hmmmmmm indeed!
 
Old 10-01-2008, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Pilot Point, TX
7,874 posts, read 14,175,293 times
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Andrew Jukes wrote a very exhaustive piece on this topic.

Restitution of All Things (Index) (http://www.tentmaker.org/restitutionindex.htm - broken link)

Note the scriptural support.
 
Old 10-01-2008, 04:59 PM
 
Location: God's Country
23,013 posts, read 34,374,307 times
Reputation: 31644
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
That's it right there. As evidenced by this right here:

If you take the whole verse of Titus 1:2 The word aeonian is used twice, once translated as eternal and the other as world.

Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal(166-aeonian) life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world(166-aeonian)began.

Hmmmmmm....
And the verse before that Titus 1:1 "This letter is from Paul, a slave of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ. I have been sent to bring faith to those God has chosen and to teach THEM to know the truth that shows THEM how to live Godly lives".
The promise of eternal life is not for everyone, because everyone is not going to accept Jesus as their Savior. And because God is not a lier, hell will be eternal.
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