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Old 12-11-2013, 04:48 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 11,338,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
In that case I will side put my faith in the clear verses that Jesus Christ is the Savior of all men. Can you fault me for that ?.
Yes ... because 2 Peter 3:16 is not the sole property of Millennialists
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Old 12-11-2013, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 6,415,552 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn View Post
I believe that God will be the judge and justly administer his righteous authority in any way He decides.... that's what a judge does, that's what judging is. Judging is not objective like you ask, it is not black and white, it involves subjective analysis that requires a view of our hearts. Who upon this earth can do such a thing? Nothing He will do, or can do, is kept from us within scripture. To believe how God will determine the fate of anyone is to place ones self in His shoes, to be god .... and as our heart bears witness to our love, or lack thereof, each of us will come to face to face with the God of creation ...and be judged according to scripture.

I sense your questioning is bridled judgement and I don't like that. Don't push it.
I asked you two question of which you didn't answer either of them. I presume you responded to the wrong post.
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Old 12-11-2013, 04:57 PM
 
Location: New England
36,092 posts, read 24,701,618 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Yes ... because 2 Peter 3:16 is not the sole property of Millennialists
Nor is it the sole property of none millennialists ?.
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Old 12-11-2013, 05:11 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
29,351 posts, read 21,663,668 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
In that case I will side put my faith in the clear verses that Jesus Christ is the Savior of all men. Can you fault me for that ?.
As I said in post #20, I am not going to answer the same questions posed by the same people who have repeatedly asked those same questions in the past and who have not believed the answers which were given.
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Old 12-11-2013, 05:22 PM
 
Location: USA
17,157 posts, read 9,939,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
I asked you two question of which you didn't answer either of them. I presume you responded to the wrong post.
He couldn't have been responding to my post either because he didn't answer my question.
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Old 12-11-2013, 05:26 PM
 
Location: New England
36,092 posts, read 24,701,618 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
As I said in post #20, I am not going to answer the same questions posed by the same people who have repeatedly asked those same questions in the past and who have not believed the answers which were given.
That seems to be the over riding issue between those who think they can clearly show by the scriptures that eternal torment is true and those who can clearly prove by scripture that it is not.

With Christ in me bearing witness to the fact that the scriptures clearly teach all are saved and that salvation is not salvation from eternal but from our inability to hit the mark how God desires and intends for all us to do, so that we live in abundant life, settles it for me.
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Old 12-11-2013, 05:30 PM
 
Location: USA
17,157 posts, read 9,939,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Simply open your eyes. The verses I referenced in Revelation (see post #144) are just as literal as Matthew 25:41-46 (which is the very reason I included Matthew 25:41-46 in post #146) which speaks of the same punishment as the verses in Revelation. The eternal punishment mentioned in Matthew 25:46 is just as literal as the eternal life which is also mentioned in that same verse.

I think this is clear enough for anyone who is willing to open their eyes and see. For that reason, we are done here.
You may be done here, but I will have to assume that it is because you have arbitrarily decided that the passages are literal simply because you want them to be since you have not given any other reason for doing so.

It makes much more sense to take a passage written in a book full of symbolism figuratively. And then, since you equate them, that would make the Matthew passage figurative as well.
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Old 12-11-2013, 05:50 PM
 
7,246 posts, read 11,472,797 times
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I'm glad the ultimate death is Hell. People who are there deserve it. And the people on this Earth that have went against God also deserve it.
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Old 12-11-2013, 06:08 PM
 
Location: New England
36,092 posts, read 24,701,618 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
I'm glad the ultimate death is Hell. People who are there deserve it. And the people on this Earth that have went against God also deserve it.
It's comments like this that Christianity is struggling to be taken seriously. It takes the biscuit Allen.

Ezek. 33:11 – “Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live.”
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:12 PM
 
670 posts, read 749,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
I'm glad the ultimate death is Hell. People who are there deserve it. And the people on this Earth that have went against God also deserve it.
Moderator cut: deleted

The intentions behind doing a good deed are more important than the deed it's self,
for if you do a good deed to avoid punishment or to gain a reward you will never see paradise.
One must do good with the intention of doing good, only then will you find paradise.

Hell-fire Christians are similar to the Pharisees of Christs day, they don't allow people into paradise nor do themselves enter.

I and my god forgive you and yours of the sin of wishing harm on others, I only ask that you both go forth and sin no more.
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

What is the true sign of Jonah?
Who is familiar with the story of the prophet Jonah? Who went against gods will, Jonah wished ill of an entire people thinking he knew best what they deserved. God wanted them to have a chance to repent, Jonah knew they might actually repent and if they did, God would have mercy, Jonah was angry with god and ran away, he was swallowed up into the belly of a sea creature until he chose to come back to god and do gods will. The creature vomited Jonah upon the land. This story is about death, in several respects, but it is also about rebirth. This story is a symbol to those who are self-righteous and think they know best, who think others deserve what is coming to them and that they are better. It is a trap the devil uses on the most pious of persons, the snare of ones own ego getting so large it consumes them with pride and arrogance, they begin to think they know gods mind when in reality they are blinded by the devils light. Jonah agreed to do as god wished but with the hope that those people would still refuse to repent, he wished ill of them. When he told them of the danger they turned from their ways and repented, god had mercy on them, while that happened Jonah had went out to the wilderness to watch what might take place and a vine grew up from the Earth and provided him shade. Then the next day God made Jonah's vine wither away, Jonah became angry with god and god rebuked him, for shouldn't god be more concerned with the needs of the many over the wants of a single man. The story ends with Jonah still angry. Angry leads to Hate, and Hate is the path to ones own destruction. In our age we have entire congregations of Jonahs wishing ill of others and refusing to do gods will, and god has provided them a Vine as well as New Wine, but I say unto you for those who refuse what is good in favor of the evil for them the New Wine dries up the Vine withers and all their merry makers shall groan. For those who have will be given more but to those who don't have even what they do have will be taken away.

The final punishment for those corrupted by evil is not torture as many presume, god is not so cruel,
those troubled minds will be put to rest for ever with eternal death, their souls will be snuffed out from existence and they will not get another chance, for they have had many chances to repent in each life and in each death.

Last edited by june 7th; 12-12-2013 at 04:54 AM.. Reason: Rude and inflammatory
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