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Old 12-11-2013, 07:26 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
29,544 posts, read 21,775,028 times
Reputation: 13735

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
You may be done here, but I will have to assume that it is because you have arbitrarily decided that the passages are literal simply because you want them to be since you have not given any other reason for doing so.

It makes much more sense to take a passage written in a book full of symbolism figuratively. And then, since you equate them, that would make the Matthew passage figurative as well.
You may assume whatever you wish. I gave the rules for proper interpretation of the Bible. I did not mean that I am necessarily done with the thread, but that it is pointless to answer any more of your questions since it is clear that you have no intention of being objective. If you want to believe that eternal punishment is figurative, then if you are to be consistent, you must of necessity believe that eternal life is figurative. But believe what you will.
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:34 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
29,544 posts, read 21,775,028 times
Reputation: 13735
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
I'm glad the ultimate death is Hell. People who are there deserve it. And the people on this Earth that have went against God also deserve it.
God does not desire that any perish, but that all should come to a knowledge of the truth.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

1 Tim. 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
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Old 12-11-2013, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,960 posts, read 13,519,365 times
Reputation: 2271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
1 John 3:8 does not mean that Satan sinned from the moment he was created, but refers to the fact that he was sinning from the time of the beginning of man's creation. He had been created blameless in his ways, and had the seal of perfection until he rebelled against God.


As for Isa. 54:16, that is not a reference to Satan, but in context refers to the nation Assyria as God's instrument which He used to destroy other nations because of their evil (Isa 10:5-7; 37:21-27).

Isa. 10:5-7: the nation Assyria is the destroyer.

Isa. 37:21-27: refers to Sennacherib the king of Assyria as the destroyer.

God raises up nations and uses them to achieve His purposes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
And Isaiah 14, is a reference to the fall of the King of Babylon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
While Isaiah 14 is about the king of Babylon, views differ over whether Isaiah 14:12-14 has reference to Satan or not.
I believe that it does as Satan was the power behind the throne of Babylon just as he was the power behind the throne of Tyre.
Spiritual Babylon lives within the hearts and minds of certain men.

How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning.
How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations.

For you have said in your heart:

I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God.
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north.
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.

Yet, you shall be brought down to Sheol, to the lowest depths of the Pit.

Last edited by Jerwade; 12-11-2013 at 08:33 PM..
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:23 PM
 
1,493 posts, read 1,231,903 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
I'm glad the ultimate death is Hell. People who are there deserve it. And the people on this Earth that have went against God also deserve it.
Didn't I see you post something very similar before perhaps on another thread?...I looked through this one and couldn't find it, but I could've swore I saw it....Anyway, I imagine your definition of "rebelling against God" includes anyone regardless of their background or life circumstance who don't happen to say the sinners prayer at some point in their measly 0-120 year lifespan and by "death" you mean sent to an eternal torture chamber? If so, all other scriptural issues aside, God disagrees with you because scripture is clear that he is NOT glad about anyone being lost/perishing and for some holier than thou reason, you've felt it necessary to reinforce your gladness. If this is indeed the case, you only reinforced how compassionless and unChristlike you truly are and you may need serious spiritual and/or psychological help
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Florida
9,795 posts, read 6,769,459 times
Reputation: 7265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
He couldn't have been responding to my post either because he didn't answer my question.
Actually I answered both with grace. You don’t recognize it because you lack what you do not understand.

Bless both your hearts

fini
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:15 AM
 
Location: USA
17,157 posts, read 9,968,002 times
Reputation: 2351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You may assume whatever you wish. I gave the rules for proper interpretation of the Bible. I did not mean that I am necessarily done with the thread, but that it is pointless to answer any more of your questions since it is clear that you have no intention of being objective. If you want to believe that eternal punishment is figurative, then if you are to be consistent, you must of necessity believe that eternal life is figurative. But believe what you will.
You told me that you take everything in the bible literally unless there is good reason to take it figuratively. And I've explained why, using your own rule*, it makes sense to understand the passages in Revelations (a highly symbolic book describing a vision) figuratively. You have not explained why that reasoning isn't sensible.

(* Also, you gave no reason to accept that your rule of interpretation is the only "proper" one that everyone must follow.)
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:17 AM
 
Location: USA
17,157 posts, read 9,968,002 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn View Post
Actually I answered both with grace. You don’t recognize it because you lack what you do not understand.

Bless both your hearts

fini
You accuse people of being judgmental when they ask you questions in order to understand where you are coming from.

I think your definition of grace must be very different from my own.
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:28 AM
 
Location: USA
17,157 posts, read 9,968,002 times
Reputation: 2351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You may assume whatever you wish. I gave the rules for proper interpretation of the Bible. I did not mean that I am necessarily done with the thread, but that it is pointless to answer any more of your questions since it is clear that you have no intention of being objective. If you want to believe that eternal punishment is figurative, then if you are to be consistent, you must of necessity believe that eternal life is figurative. But believe what you will.

Now, to answer this part. You are funny when you talk about how you've said something so many times on this forum and people just refuse to listen. You and I both know that the word translated "eternal" in some bibles has been addressed numerous times on this forum but apparently you just refuse to listen.

I didn't say age-enduring punishment [correction] was figurative.

I don't believe age-enduring life is figurative either. **

I do, however, believe that the "lake of fire" is figurative. It is symbolic language in a book filled to the brim with symbolic language.

(** I believe that it is spiritual life that is being spoken of, not physical. The book of John says that knowing God is "age-enduring life". God is love ... know love, know life; no love, no life.)

Last edited by Pleroo; 12-12-2013 at 08:47 AM..
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Florida
9,795 posts, read 6,769,459 times
Reputation: 7265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
You accuse people of being judgmental when they ask you questions in order to understand where you are coming from.

I think your definition of grace must be very different from my own.
Are you a Christian?
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Southwest Arkansas
804 posts, read 739,798 times
Reputation: 876
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
I'm glad the ultimate death is Hell. People who are there deserve it. And the people on this Earth that have went against God also deserve it.
Thankfully you don't speak for God

Last edited by onceahogalwaysahog; 12-12-2013 at 09:18 AM.. Reason: deleted off topic part of my post
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