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Old 12-07-2013, 07:54 PM
 
Location: New England
36,113 posts, read 24,719,458 times
Reputation: 2643

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
See post #1.
I have and you or Mike 555, Moderator cut: edit Viz and Twin cannot quote one f the many verses quoted in the OP that agrees with Matthew 1:21 which tells us actually what we are saved from

She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will SAVE his people FROM their SINS

This is what you see when you read this verse of scripture

She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR SINS,which is ETERNAL HELL

The verses quoted in the OP don't even state that the wages of sin is eternal torment, it says death.

How any one with a half a brain cannot see this when it us pointed out to them is in total rebellion. You are grafting eternal hell into the scriptures where it speaks of sin and death. This leaves only 2 other options, either annihilation which in all fairness if you are not learnt in the scriptures is quite believable or universalism.

Last edited by june 7th; 12-07-2013 at 08:13 PM.. Reason: Offensive to other member.
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Old 12-07-2013, 07:59 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
29,416 posts, read 21,693,324 times
Reputation: 13713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
What is the definition of the Lake of Fire,
Isn't it ' second death ' according to Revelation 20 vs 13, 14 ?________
Yes. The lake of fire is called the Second death (Revelation 20:14). But you must understand that the Bible recognizes different categories of death.

1.) There is physical death which is separation of the soul from the body. 2 Cor. 5:8; Luke 16:22

2.) There is spiritual death which is separation from God. Rom. 5:12, 6:23; Eph. 2:1

3.) There is the death that refers to the believer being out of fellowship. Call it 'temporal death' if you wish. Rom. 8:6; Eph. 5:14; 1 Tim. 5:6

4.) There is an extended period of being out of fellowship which could be called operational death. Rev. 3:1

5.) There is sexual death which should be self explanatory. Rom. 4:19; Heb. 11:12

6.) There is positional death in which the believer is positionally dead to sin by reason of being identified with Christ in His death on the Cross. This results from the baptism of the Holy Spirit which enters the believer into union with Christ. Rom. 6:5-14; Col. 3:3

7.) There is the Second death which is spiritual death perpetuated forever in the lake of fire. The beast and the false prophet are shown in Revelation 19:20-20:10 to be alive in conscious torment in the lake of fire even after a thousand years. This shows that the lake of fire does not mean annihilation or cessation of existence. Rev. 20:14
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Old 12-07-2013, 08:07 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
29,416 posts, read 21,693,324 times
Reputation: 13713
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
I have and you or Mike 555, Moderator cut: Orphaned Viz and Twin cannot quote one of the the many verses that agrees with Matthew 1:21 which tells us what we are saved from

She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will SAVE his people FROM their SINS

This is what you send when you read this verse of scripture

She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR SINS,which is ETERNAL HELL

The verses quoted in the OP don't even state that the wages of sin is eternal torment, it says death.

How any one with a half a brain cannot see this when it us pointed out to them is in total rebellion. You are grafting eternal hell into the scriptures where it speaks of sin and death. This leaves only 2 other options, either annihilation which in all fairness if you are not learnt in the scriptures is quite believable or universalism.
It is not by one specific verse, but by a comparison of scripture with scripture that it is seen that eternal salvation is ultimately from the lake of fire. The objective mind cannot but recognize, and the one who is honest with himself cannot but acknowledge the reality of that fact.
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Old 12-07-2013, 08:11 PM
 
670 posts, read 749,638 times
Reputation: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
It is not by one specific verse, but by a comparison of scripture with scripture that it is seen that eternal salvation is ultimately from the lake of fire. The objective mind cannot but recognize, and the one who is honest with himself cannot but acknowledge the reality of that fact.
What kind of torture can people look forward to in that lake?
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Old 12-07-2013, 08:22 PM
 
Location: New England
36,113 posts, read 24,719,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
It is not by one specific verse, but by a comparison of scripture with scripture that it is seen that eternal salvation is ultimately from the lake of fire. The objective mind cannot but recognize, and the one who is honest with himself cannot but acknowledge the reality of that fact.
And even a comparison of verses does not equate to eternal hell, from the verses you quote there is a far greater argument for annihilation. Sorry, you cannot deny that something as drastically important as being saved from eternal hell would need scriptures that clearly stand on their own to leave us within no doubt about the reality that it is eternal hell that which we are saved from.

In fact eternal torment bible believers remind us that we are without excuse because of what is clearly seen of the invisible qualities of God . So how is our salvation not clearly stated that it is from eternal hell in scriptures(visible qualities), when read with an open mind and taken literally it is our sins we are saved from ?

Since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. FoR since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been CLEARLY SEEN, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Peter on the day of Pentecost made no mention of eternal hell when he preached that Jesus they crucified is the Christ, neither did those who responded to his message make any remark to what they must do to be saved from eternal hell. Paul in all his epistles never said eternal hell is what we are saved from.

The objective mind as far as I am concerned see's Christ doing something about the issue of sin. Tell me what the objective of a good physician is.....It is not the healthy who NEED a doctor, but the sick, should give you a clue.

Last edited by pcamps; 12-07-2013 at 08:38 PM..
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Old 12-07-2013, 08:28 PM
 
Location: New England
36,113 posts, read 24,719,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azrael17 View Post
"They shall be put to death, for Yahweh is evil." - Old Testament in a Nutshell.
Murdering sinners just cause the bible says so is wrong, its a violation of civil rights.

The wages of sin are not death,
I mean who would stone a sinner that's wrong, don't forget he with out sin cast the first stone.
I'm with you Azrael
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Old 12-07-2013, 08:29 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
29,416 posts, read 21,693,324 times
Reputation: 13713
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
And even a comparison of verses does not equate to eternal hell, from the verses you quote there is a far greater argument for annihilation. Sorry, you cannot deny that something as drastically important as being saved from eternal hell would need scriptures that clearly stand on their own to leave us within no doubt about the reality that it us that which we are saved from.

Peter on the day of Pentecost made no mention of eternal hell when he preached that Jesus they crucified is the Christ, neither did those who responded to his message make any remark to what they must do to be saved from eternal hell. Paul in all his epistles never said eternal hell is what we are saved from.

The objective mind as far as I am concerned see's Christ doing something about the issue of sin. Tell me what the objective of a good physician is

It is not the healthy who NEED a doctor, but the sick.
Again, as with any category of doctrine, it by a comparison of scripture with scripture that a full and proper understanding is realized. It has already been shown that the lake of fire does not mean annihilation.

We both know that you are not going to listen to what I say, and so I will not take up my time arguing with you. Believe what you wish.
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Old 12-07-2013, 08:48 PM
 
Location: New England
36,113 posts, read 24,719,458 times
Reputation: 2643
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Again, as with any category of doctrine, it by a comparison of scripture with scripture that a full and proper understanding is realized. It has already been shown that the lake of fire does not mean annihilation.

We both know that you are not going to listen to what I say, and so I will not take up my time arguing with you. Believe what you wish.
Fair enough, and believe me the feeling is mutual. If you cannot see that the message of what we are saved from in the scriptures did not include eternal hell, or that the hearer when hearing the message responded to it by made no reference to eternal hell, then you too are obviously not going to listen of be reasonable in your conclusions. Make your arguments for eternal hell if you will , but please don't tell me don't tell me that is what the scripture tells us we are saved from.
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Old 12-07-2013, 08:59 PM
 
Location: New England
36,113 posts, read 24,719,458 times
Reputation: 2643
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I won't disrupt Mike's thread repeating things to you. He said this thread is intended for those who will listen, and you have already proven that you are either blinded from the truth, or simply refuse to see it.
Laugh out loud

Give me a break.....All you have repeated is what you have added and grafted into the scripture.,and to right, I am purposely blind to what you're saying and refuse to accept it. For I do take heed to what I receive unto myself.
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Old 12-07-2013, 09:41 PM
 
670 posts, read 749,638 times
Reputation: 140
What happens inside a lake of fire?

Really what do you believe will go on in that thing?
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