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Old 12-24-2013, 09:21 AM
 
1,540 posts, read 922,654 times
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Revelation 9

9 The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from
the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. 2
When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic
furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. 3 And out of
the smoke locusts came down on the earth and were given power like that of
scorpions of the earth. 4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or
any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on
their foreheads. 5 They were not allowed to kill them but only to torture them
for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a
scorpion when it strikes. 6 During those days people will seek death but will
not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.

7 The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. On their heads they
wore something like crowns of gold, and their faces resembled human faces. 8
Their hair was like women’s hair, and their teeth were like lions’ teeth. 9 They
had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was
like the thundering of many horses and chariots rushing into battle. 10 They had
tails with stingers, like scorpions, and in their tails they had power to
torment people for five months. 11 They had as king over them the angel of the
Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is,
Destroyer).

Anyone willing to take a stab at this one? Personally not interested in a literal translation unless, well, it turns out to be literal. I have no clue what verse 6 is about, people seeking death but will not find it???

Thanks!
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Old 12-24-2013, 09:39 AM
 
19,943 posts, read 14,810,678 times
Reputation: 1987
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero 7 View Post
Revelation 9

9 The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from
the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. 2
When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic
furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. 3 And out of
the smoke locusts came down on the earth and were given power like that of
scorpions of the earth. 4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or
any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on
their foreheads. 5 They were not allowed to kill them but only to torture them
for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a
scorpion when it strikes. 6 During those days people will seek death but will
not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.

7 The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. On their heads they
wore something like crowns of gold, and their faces resembled human faces. 8
Their hair was like women’s hair, and their teeth were like lions’ teeth. 9 They
had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was
like the thundering of many horses and chariots rushing into battle. 10 They had
tails with stingers, like scorpions, and in their tails they had power to
torment people for five months. 11 They had as king over them the angel of the
Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is,
Destroyer).

Anyone willing to take a stab at this one? Personally not interested in a literal translation unless, well, it turns out to be literal. I have no clue what verse 6 is about, people seeking death but will not find it???

Thanks!
At this point, the rapture has already happened, so the only people left on earth are unbelievers and a small amount of believers that may have come to believe after the rapture. God is now passing down judgment on the world for sin.

In 8:13 we see an angel crying "Woe! Woe! Woe!". That's a foreshadowing -- we will see 3 "woes" on the earth. This passage in 9 is the first. The 2nd one starts in 9:13.

In this passage we see Satan and the army of hell being released, and God gives him the key to a sort of prison for demons, and they come pouring out. The beasts will torture mankind so badly to the point that they will wish they could die...but they won't kill people. This judgment will last 5 months.

Notice, though, that they will not hurt the Jews that are sealed by God in 7:1-3.

This plague parallels the 8th plague of Egypt in Ex 10:3-20
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Old 12-24-2013, 09:56 AM
 
1,540 posts, read 922,654 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
At this point, the rapture has already happened, so the only people left on earth are unbelievers and a small amount of believers that may have come to believe after the rapture. God is now passing down judgment on the world for sin.

In 8:13 we see an angel crying "Woe! Woe! Woe!". That's a foreshadowing -- we will see 3 "woes" on the earth. This passage in 9 is the first. The 2nd one starts in 9:13.

In this passage we see Satan and the army of hell being released, and God gives him the key to a sort of prison for demons, and they come pouring out. The beasts will torture mankind so badly to the point that they will wish they could die...but they won't kill people. This judgment will last 5 months.

Notice, though, that they will not hurt the Jews that are sealed by God in 7:1-3.

This plague parallels the 8th plague of Egypt in Ex 10:3-20
You say the beasts will torture mankind so badly they will wish they could die but the verse says they will be unable to die, death will elude them. Why wouldn't these people just kill themselves if the suffering is so horrid?
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Old 12-24-2013, 10:20 AM
 
19,943 posts, read 14,810,678 times
Reputation: 1987
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero 7 View Post
You say the beasts will torture mankind so badly they will wish they could die but the verse says they will be unable to die, death will elude them. Why wouldn't these people just kill themselves if the suffering is so horrid?
The text really doesn't answer that. Maybe they won't have the guts to, maybe they will be prevented from doing so. Maybe it's a figure of speech.

I do know that when I was sick with West Nile Virus about 10 years ago there were moments when I wished I would die. When it came down to it, I didn't ACTUALLY want to die--I just wanted the fever, pain and sickness to stop.
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Old 12-24-2013, 10:33 AM
 
103 posts, read 101,492 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero 7 View Post
You say the beasts will torture mankind so badly they will wish they could die but the verse says they will be unable to die, death will elude them. Why wouldn't these people just kill themselves if the suffering is so horrid?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
The text really doesn't answer that. Maybe they won't have the guts to, maybe they will be prevented from doing so. Maybe it's a figure of speech.

I do know that when I was sick with West Nile Virus about 10 years ago there were moments when I wished I would die. When it came down to it, I didn't ACTUALLY want to die--I just wanted the fever, pain and sickness to stop.
I think that is a good answer, and I commend you for not trying to act like you have "all the answers." I don't spend a lot of time studying Revelation like some, but here are some things from online sources.

Revelation 9:6 - In those days, men shall seek death and be unable to find it. All will wish to die but must live on in their suffering, for death will not come. [Turker's Comment: The suffering of the Coming is so great that all wish to die to end it, but that way out will not be allowed.]Revelation, Chapter 9

"6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them."
To these, suicide is preferable to the pain of living; but, God does not allow the afflicted rebels the luxury of death-- "death shall flee from them" (9:6). Both temporal punishment, as well as possible repentance, are reasons for the All Wise God to prevent success to the rebels' desired suicide. Sin will be punished. "Behold, ye have sinned against the LORD: and be sure your sin will find you out" (Numbers 32:23). But, repentance will be visited with mercy. "But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance" (Matthew 9:13).A Commentary on the Book of Revelation (Chapter 9) Sounding the Fifth and Sixth Trumpets- Demonic Locusts and Demonic Horsemen
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Old 12-24-2013, 10:35 AM
 
19,943 posts, read 14,810,678 times
Reputation: 1987
Quote:
Originally Posted by PONDerings View Post
I think that is a good answer, and I commend you for not trying to act like you have "all the answers." I don't spend a lot of time studying Revelation like some, but here are some things from online sources.

Revelation 9:6 - In those days, men shall seek death and be unable to find it. All will wish to die but must live on in their suffering, for death will not come. [Turker's Comment: The suffering of the Coming is so great that all wish to die to end it, but that way out will not be allowed.]Revelation, Chapter 9

"6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them."
To these, suicide is preferable to the pain of living; but, God does not allow the afflicted rebels the luxury of death-- "death shall flee from them" (9:6). Both temporal punishment, as well as possible repentance, are reasons for the All Wise God to prevent success to the rebels' desired suicide. Sin will be punished. "Behold, ye have sinned against the LORD: and be sure your sin will find you out" (Numbers 32:23). But, repentance will be visited with mercy. "But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance" (Matthew 9:13).A Commentary on the Book of Revelation (Chapter 9) Sounding the Fifth and Sixth Trumpets- Demonic Locusts and Demonic Horsemen

Revelation is one of those books that I think we can have huge disagreements about but still call each "brother". I'm just not willing to die on that hill saying I've got it all figured out.
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Old 12-24-2013, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Florida -
9,879 posts, read 12,445,618 times
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--- Just a "stab" :

By this point of the Great Tribulation, these people have rejected and cursed God throughout their pre-Tribulation lives and also through seven Seal warnings and five Trumpet warnings of the Great Tribulation. In their wickedness, they have rejected God's love, mercy and grace; and further ignored inescapable warnings of their own impending doom. Yet, they have inexcusably chosen to live entirely apart from God, as if they would never die.

Now, as the Great Tribulation 'warnings' come to a close, three unparalleled "woes" are released from the spiritual realm/world where they have been held captive from the foundations of the earth. They foreshadow a 'Judgment' (Bowls of wrath) about to be poured out on the wicked and unrepentant.

Since those still remaining alive on earth have resolutely chosen to live without God when they had the choice to do otherwise, -- they are now no longer 'able' to choose to do otherwise. (Like Pharaoh in Moses' time, they have so hardened their hearts against the obvious truth and proof of God, ... they are no longer able to change and turn-away from their own self-imposed spiritual blindness and hardness of heart!).

On another level, some might suggest that God is seeking vengeance against these particular people, but, that is not so. Revelation is a prophetic vision of what will happen in the future and these people are representative of those who live and die without God of all times. While nobody knows when the end will come, everyone (of all times) can clearly see the 'end of story' for earth and the wicked and unrepentant .... at a time when they can still repent and turn to God.

(Sidelight: Life and death remain within God's hands ... not man's. This inability to be killed is not unprecedented, as evidenced by the "sealing" of the 144,000 who remain on earth during the Great Tribulation to evangelize the world).

Last edited by jghorton; 12-24-2013 at 11:23 AM..
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Old 12-24-2013, 12:07 PM
 
18,173 posts, read 12,594,398 times
Reputation: 9235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero 7 View Post
Revelation 9

9 The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from
the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. 2
When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic
furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. 3 And out of
the smoke locusts came down on the earth and were given power like that of
scorpions of the earth. 4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or
any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on
their foreheads. 5 They were not allowed to kill them but only to torture them
for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a
scorpion when it strikes. 6 During those days people will seek death but will
not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.

7 The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. On their heads they
wore something like crowns of gold, and their faces resembled human faces. 8
Their hair was like women’s hair, and their teeth were like lions’ teeth. 9 They
had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was
like the thundering of many horses and chariots rushing into battle. 10 They had
tails with stingers, like scorpions, and in their tails they had power to
torment people for five months. 11 They had as king over them the angel of the
Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is,
Destroyer).

Anyone willing to take a stab at this one? Personally not interested in a literal translation unless, well, it turns out to be literal. I have no clue what verse 6 is about, people seeking death but will not find it???

Thanks!
How about symbolic and no literal beasts, locust etc?
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Old 12-24-2013, 01:05 PM
 
1,540 posts, read 922,654 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
How about symbolic and no literal beasts, locust etc?
That's what I was hoping for...if you take this literal, well, there's also a dragon that stands on the shore of the sea.

Plus, I personally don't believe in the rapture either.
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Old 12-24-2013, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Arizona
25,367 posts, read 11,764,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
How about symbolic and no literal beasts, locust etc?
The imagery of imagined fear.
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