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Old 01-14-2014, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Leeds, England
591 posts, read 769,477 times
Reputation: 317

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Dear mocker,
It was you who said Jesus never existed. PROVE IT or keep quiet. You are making yourself look sophomoric.
Dear Eusebius, (It is funny, how a 'scoffer' also calls someone a mocker) (How very Christian of you)

I can mock. I'm not religious.

Proof for first point: seeing as you're ignoring me.

Creation Science 1 of 9

Second point:

No I didn't! Here is how things unfolded!

If you want to play who said what first, it was you who first claimed their was a God with this comment:
Eusebius;
'If Jesus Christ never existed then you must conclude none of these philosophers ever existed as well'.

You see you claimed their must be a God, if the philosophers existed.

My reply: 'There is no sources other than the Bible for the evidence of a God'. (True, is it not? Otherwise my religious education classes would have been far more interesting).

In actual fact, I have NEVER said God/Jesus don't exist. You took this comment to mean that, when it's not that at all: "There is no evidence of a God/Jesus Christ mentioned by anyone from the Roman era. Nor by artifacts that have been discovered or by their historians. They were around 2000 years a go. So what happened?"

Another fact, other points you may have mistaken are me saying, I do not accept the claim there is a God, and also saying there is no evidence to support you theory there is a God.

NOW, seen as I have cleared that up for you, YOU EUSEBIUS can either continue with this discussion after being made to look foolish, or you can provide the evidence I've been waiting for all day from you to provide.

Seen as I have answered your question, even though the burden of proof isn't on me, I wait with baited breathe to see you response. I bet anybody any amount they like, that he provides no evidence for anything at all, just another, shut up or go away comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
You are making yourself look sophomoric.[/i]
Had to search that last word, we don't have sophomore in this country. Thanks though, it's at least 10 years wiser than you're coming across.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
PROVE IT or keep quiet
I would have been silent, but I'm not from 1000 years ago!

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Old 01-15-2014, 12:18 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
10,688 posts, read 6,242,643 times
Reputation: 4656
Default was there an ark?

Was there an ark? I don't know. Has someone found its remains in Turkey---hogwash.

But somehow this has degenerated into was Jesus a historical figure? The questioning of Jesus NOT being a historical figure is relatively new in history--just like the view that there was no holocaust in WWII.

Here is a video of non-biblical sources of the existence of Jesus the man. The belief of Jesus is God is a question for faith, but "was Jesus a real person"---no doubt about it.

The historian will be interested in listening to this lengthy video. It is not produced from a "christian" standpoint, but rather from an historical review of the evidence.

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Old 01-15-2014, 08:10 AM
 
17,966 posts, read 13,841,384 times
Reputation: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Matt View Post

No I didn't! Here is how things unfolded!

If you want to play who said what first, it was you who first claimed their was a God with this comment:
Eusebius;
'If Jesus Christ never existed then you must conclude none of these philosophers ever existed as well'.

You see you claimed their must be a God, if the philosophers existed.

My reply: 'There is no sources other than the Bible for the evidence of a God'. (True, is it not? Otherwise my religious education classes would have been far more interesting).

In actual fact, I have NEVER said God/Jesus don't exist. You took this comment to mean that, when it's not that at all: "There is no evidence of a God/Jesus Christ mentioned by anyone from the Roman era. Nor by artifacts that have been discovered or by their historians. They were around 2000 years a go. So what happened?"

Another fact, other points you may have mistaken are me saying, I do not accept the claim there is a God, and also saying there is no evidence to support you theory there is a God.

NOW, seen as I have cleared that up for you, YOU EUSEBIUS can either continue with this discussion after being made to look foolish, or you can provide the evidence I've been waiting for all day from you to provide.

Seen as I have answered your question, even though the burden of proof isn't on me, I wait with baited breathe to see you response. I bet anybody any amount they like, that he provides no evidence for anything at all, just another, shut up or go away comment.

Had to search that last word, we don't have sophomore in this country. Thanks though, it's at least 10 years wiser than you're coming across.



I would have been silent, but I'm not from 1000 years ago!
You have your facts messed up. Here is how it went down:

Old 01-04-2014, 08:25 PM #36
Northern Matt
There is no evidence of a God/Jesus Christ mentioned by anyone from the Roman era. Nor by artifacts that have been discovered or by their historians. They were around 2000 years a go. So what happened?

------------------------------------------
Northern Matt
#38
So in other words, they didn't exist at the time! They would have still be written about by non Christians.. i.e Roman Historians!

-------------------------------------------

Eusebius replied #46
If Jesus Christ never existed then you must conclude none of these philosophers ever existed as well:

List of ancient Greek philosophers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Their books were just made up if you are correct.

I didn't watch the video which started this thread. I personally don't know if they have **recently** found the ark. There are ancient historians who have written about seeing it. But you will just say they couldn't have and go on with your life. That's fine with me.

There really was a massive ark built by Noah in which he saved the animals and his family and re-started the human race after the flood.
The New Testament as well as the Old Testament are historical documents. Get over it.
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Old 01-15-2014, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Leeds, England
591 posts, read 769,477 times
Reputation: 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
You have your facts messed up. Here is how it went down:

Old 01-04-2014, 08:25 PM #36
Northern Matt
There is no evidence of a God/Jesus Christ mentioned by anyone from the Roman era. Nor by artifacts that have been discovered or by their historians. They were around 2000 years a go. So what happened?
You're misquoting, what do the next 7 words after your highlighted section say? They are part of that sentence. I'll underline then for you!

------------------------------------------

Quote:
Northern Matt
#38
So in other words, they didn't exist at the time! They would have still be written about by non Christians.. i.e Roman Historians!

-------------------------------------------
Again.. read the whole paragraph. You're taking sentences out of context. I can now see why you're religious.

Quote:
Eusebius replied #46
If Jesus Christ never existed then you must conclude none of these philosophers ever existed as well:

List of ancient Greek philosophers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Their books were just made up if you are correct.

I didn't watch the video which started this thread. I personally don't know if they have **recently** found the ark. There are ancient historians who have written about seeing it. But you will just say they couldn't have and go on with your life. That's fine with me.
Now you don't even read your own comments. I've underlined your assertion. You say, that philosophers were real, as does history and evidence. And by your crazy theory, if they existed then so did Jesus, because they wrote about him?! What?! So if I say Jesus didn't exist, does that mean the Pope doesn't exist? I'm not sure who was on the TV condemning abortion yesterday then.

For the 5th time, I do not accept the claim Jesus/God exists. There is no evidence outside the Bible for this, NONE, squat, nada, nothing! Understand? You cannot make the claim that if he didn't exist neither did others! That's just silly, especially how one is written about in a mythical book, and the others are written about with historical context.

You didn't read the article I posted in my last post either did you! That would take your big paragraph down easily.

No, if there was evidence to suggest, (which there is none, unless you'd like to present it, of which I doubt) that there was an Ark, then I would accept it. That's what Atheists do. When new and valid evidence if placed in front of us, we read, take on and accept that new evidence. Unlike what you're doing now.

Quote:
There really was a massive ark built by Noah in which he saved the animals and his family and re-started the human race after the flood.
Now this is a bold claim, which you need to back up with evidence.

Quote:
The New Testament as well as the Old Testament are historical documents.
They are not credible sources.

Quote:
Get over it.
You're clutching at straws here. You're also very aggressive for a man following such a holy man. Oh, wait... You fit right in!

Now, stop deviating, and give me what I asked you to prove.

N.B Nobody took the bet up with me, so I didn't win any money. Shame.
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Old 01-15-2014, 09:17 AM
 
17,966 posts, read 13,841,384 times
Reputation: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Matt View Post
You're misquoting, what do the next 7 words after your highlighted section say? They are part of that sentence. I'll underline then for you!

------------------------------------------



Again.. read the whole paragraph. You're taking sentences out of context. I can now see why you're religious.



Now you don't even read your own comments. I've underlined your assertion. You say, that philosophers were real, as does history and evidence. And by your crazy theory, if they existed then so did Jesus, because they wrote about him?! What?! So if I say Jesus didn't exist, does that mean the Pope doesn't exist? I'm not sure who was on the TV condemning abortion yesterday then.

For the 5th time, I do not accept the claim Jesus/God exists. There is no evidence outside the Bible for this, NONE, squat, nada, nothing! Understand? You cannot make the claim that if he didn't exist neither did others! That's just silly, especially how one is written about in a mythical book, and the others are written about with historical context.

You didn't read the article I posted in my last post either did you! That would take your big paragraph down easily.

No, if there was evidence to suggest, (which there is none, unless you'd like to present it, of which I doubt) that there was an Ark, then I would accept it. That's what Atheists do. When new and valid evidence if placed in front of us, we read, take on and accept that new evidence. Unlike what you're doing now.



Now this is a bold claim, which you need to back up with evidence.



They are not credible sources.



You're clutching at straws here. You're also very aggressive for a man following such a holy man. Oh, wait... You fit right in!

Now, stop deviating, and give me what I asked you to prove.

N.B Nobody took the bet up with me, so I didn't win any money. Shame.
Jesus existed per historians:

Is Jesus Real? - Non-biblical Evidence of His Existence - YouTube
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Old 01-15-2014, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Leeds, England
591 posts, read 769,477 times
Reputation: 317
You just don't understand anything outside your own bubble, do you?!

Would you clarify any points from that video? I'll give you 35 minutes to watch it.

Yet, IF he was real, there would be far more compelling evidence.

Even the Bible contradicts itself....

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Old 01-15-2014, 09:47 AM
 
17,966 posts, read 13,841,384 times
Reputation: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Matt View Post
You just don't understand anything outside your own bubble, do you?!

Would you clarify any points from that video? I'll give you 35 minutes to watch it.

Yet, IF he was real, there would be far more compelling evidence.

Even the Bible contradicts itself....
Oh my.
The KJV is not inspired. It was just a revision of a revision of other Bibles in existence at the time of its writing.

You are incorrigibubble.
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Old 01-15-2014, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Leeds, England
591 posts, read 769,477 times
Reputation: 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Oh my.
The KJV is not inspired. It was just a revision of a revision of other Bibles in existence at the time of its writing.

You are incorrigibubble.
Yes 8000, which all contradict one another.

Still, you once again, failed to answer my question. You have no focus. It's astonishing.
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:14 AM
 
278 posts, read 268,766 times
Reputation: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post

Noah only had to bring on the Ark 'kinds' of animals capable of breeding according to their kinds. The 'kinds' would supply the later variety.
Blasphemy! 'Microevolution' cannot account for the modern range of species you are proposing in a mere 6,000 years since the flood. 6,000 years is only a few thousand generations for most animals, not enough time to account for all of the cumulative differences in the variety of species we have today. Noah would have logically had to tote nearly every species in pairs and that number would have been a staggering amount.
If Christians could come up with a better story, like Noah could clone species or engineer new species in a stone age laboratory, you could cut that number in half(or more).
Also troubling for you mythologists is the distribution of species across the globe. Why did lemurs only go to Madagascar after the flood? Why didn't horses go to Vietnam? Why didn't Wooly Mammoths migrate to South America? Why is T-Rex fossils found mostly in the Western U.S.?
Also of importance, you have to account for all of that water required for a worldwide flood. Where did this water come from? Where did it go?
Either a)All of the laws of nature were suspended to make your flood story true or b)someone is lying.
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
10,688 posts, read 6,242,643 times
Reputation: 4656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Oh my.
The KJV is not inspired. It was just a revision of a revision of other Bibles in existence at the time of its writing.

You are incorrigibubble.
Actually, he is correct. The KJV was translated from literally the worst version of the septuagint which we now have in our possession. If it was inspired then all the additions and deletions that occurred in later generations from the originals were inspired, too. For example, it contains Mark 16:9-20 which are not in the earliest versions extant that we have of the gospel of Mark. Further that extension of Mark is written in a different style.

Based on that alone, whatever the original scriptures were, the KJV is corrupted. Newer versions such as the ESV either do not include those verses or have a footnote at the bottom indicating the problem.

While I do not agree with Matt's assertion there was no historical Jesus, he is absolutely correct about the sheer number of errors/mistakes/additions and deletions between the 5700+ manuscripts (whole or partial) that we have of the NT alone. In fact there are more of those differences than there are words in the New Testament.

And I believe in Jesus and His message. But that is an issue of faith. The Bible is a work by fallible men who were trying to impart their own interpretation of their faith experiences--and, unfortunately, sometimes their prejudices. It's not a science book and it's not a history book--both of those have been shown to be way off hundreds of years ago, let alone now.

On the other hand, to say there was no historical Jesus is akin to saying there was no Davy Crockett (to whom my wife is related). And there really wasn't a "Davy" Crockett around whom much myth and stories have been built---there was a David Crockett who became more than he was. Just as Jesus, a relatively simple peasant (but a smart one!) became far larger than even He possibly thought. He was seeking the Kingdom of Heaven in Judea. Now we have a large portion of the world seeking for it---and unable to find it because Christianity has become a religion ABOUT Jesus rather than the religion OF Jesus.
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