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In the book "The Flood" by Rehwinkel, page 34 it is written: "While visiting America, Sir Charles Lyell examined the human
remains found near Natchez on the Mississippi. Here human fossils were found on the base of the loess cliff with the remains of the mastodon, the bones of a horse, the remains of an elephant, a rhinoceros and other animals now extinct or found only in a tropical climate." There are many more quotes of human remains around the world buried deep in mines along with long extinct animals.
On page 36 "One of the most important discoveries of human remains of great antiquity was made in the Sandra Cave in the Las Huertas Canyon, New Mexico. In this cave were found a variety of man-made implements together with the fossil remains of such animals as the horse, the camel, the bison, the mammoth, the ground sloth, and the wolf.
"It is interesting to note that the geological evidence found in the strata indicates that the layers underlying the fossiliferous deposits were laid down in water. This is all the more significant since the entire region is now extremely arid."
On page 37: "In 1929 a human skull was found at Bishop's Cap Peak, New Mexico, by Roscoe Conkling. This skull was found twelve feet below the surface, and at a depth of twenty-one feet a second human skull was found, associated with the bones of the horse, the cave bear, the camel, and the sloth. The strata in which these remains were found show evidences of water action."
In the book "The Flood" by Rehwinkel, page 34 it is written: "While visiting America, Sir Charles Lyell examined the human
remains found near Natchez on the Mississippi. Here human fossils were found on the base of the loess cliff with the remains of the mastodon, the bones of a horse, the remains of an elephant, a rhinoceros and other animals now extinct or found only in a tropical climate." There are many more quotes of human remains around the world buried deep in mines along with long extinct animals.
On page 36 "One of the most important discoveries of human remains of great antiquity was made in the Sandra Cave in the Las Huertas Canyon, New Mexico. In this cave were found a variety of man-made implements together with the fossil remains of such animals as the horse, the camel, the bison, the mammoth, the ground sloth, and the wolf.
"It is interesting to note that the geological evidence found in the strata indicates that the layers underlying the fossiliferous deposits were laid down in water. This is all the more significant since the entire region is now extremely arid."
On page 37: "In 1929 a human skull was found at Bishop's Cap Peak, New Mexico, by Roscoe Conkling. This skull was found twelve feet below the surface, and at a depth of twenty-one feet a second human skull was found, associated with the bones of the horse, the cave bear, the camel, and the sloth. The strata in which these remains were found show evidences of water action."
The camels and sloths are particularly clever touches.
Hey SeekerSA, I'm trying to side with you on your idea it took millions of years for those diamond pipes to develop. We know they couldn't have developed from the historic world-wide flood of Noah's day to today. So the only Biblical solution for me, in order to side with you on this, is to go back to Genesis 1:1 to 1:2:
Gen 1:1 Created by the Elohim were the heavens and the earth.
Now notice a change by the word "became":
Gen 1:2 Yet the earth became a chaos and vacant, and darkness was on the surface of the submerged chaos. [From 1:1 to 1:2 could have taken millions of years.] Yet the spirit of the Elohim is vibrating over the surface of the water.
From the last sentence of verse 2 onward you have God making, what was already there in a chaotic mess, habitable again.
Genesis does not work and would be better served with this mod.
Genesis does not tell you when this happened. The dating is nowhere in the bible and was calculated by some RCC bishop following the begats and if one were to adjust the 900 yo folk to 70 it would be a lot younger.
The idea that he is involved and between verse 1 and 2 there was an unknown amount of time to allow for evolution or whatever real science dating reveals fails. It goes on to suggest that prior to the flood the never was rain and water was a mist in the fields and water sprung up from the ground still makes the story fail.
Just get a glass bottle and fill it half with water, cap it and place it on a window sill where the sun shines in and you will see after a day or so the evidence of a water cycle at work. This is junior school science.
You can take an avocado pit and insert three tooth picks, place in same window and you will observe the germination of a new plant. Do another one and place it in compete darkness, nothing will happen.
When folk start to change the literal days into any length of time, you need to rearrange the sequence of creation so plants have the sun and so on.
This is simply mental gymnastics.
The creation story is for toddlers that cannot or do not care about niggling details.
You see, your idea even if you use YLT still has no rain to cause erosion.
In southern Africa, there are no volcanoes and the highest peak here is Kilimanjaro that has an ice cap near the equator. Please do not waste time looking for volcanoes in Africa, Africa is a continent bigger than north America. I know some exist.
Southern Africa's climate is very stable and the only "disasters" we have are floods and occasional huge hail.
The areas I showed pics of illustrates clearly sedimentation over HUGE amounts of time. It is in these layers where the dinos were found. In the titanic berg, if you were to core down further, the sedimentation layers continue; what you see is the exposed eroded structures formed by nature. I starting seeing this as a toddler when we came from Zambia to SA for vacations visiting my mom's parents. I was 13 when I first visited the Cango caves.
Cleopatra's needle stands 9m tall and is 150k years old. It is not an active formation and early visitors used to break bits off for souvenirs.
This rises about a third of the height of this cavern. This is the main hall after the entrance and they used to have concerts here at one time before proper conservation kicked in, you can see the stage at the back.
The formation of these formations does not happen if seepage is to fast. IOW in a heavy rainy season, that season growth would be minimal. This is the younger of out two caves and there are active parts not open to the general public.
The ME goat herders did not have stuff like this and if the stories in the bible emanated from Southern Africa, the content would be entirely different. The stuff of remote jungles and hidden water falls you only see in the movies, I have been there and lived it, swam in the rivers and so on.
The dating of the flood some 4500 years ago, is nowhere to be seen in any geological formation, there is no single layer of common sedimentation and for 4500 years, it would be self evident all over the world. You can study the Mekong delta, deltas in Africa, deltas in South America and they all tell the same story, there was no biblical flood. All archaeology trying to prove the bible, in particular the OT, has failed.
There are salt mines in the Med somewhere that are eons old; that suggests once there was a sea and it dried up leaving huge salt deposits. Evaporation is at known rates and this was once at sea level, dried up and the ground was pushed up.
None of these geology sites would exist if the continents moved away from each other at 40km per hour as some YEC have suggested.
You guys do not even have a common "hypothesis" as none of it is based on real science. It is called pseudo-science for a reason.
So this genealogy was just made up as a fairy tale? . . .
And these are the genealogical annals of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth. And sons are being born to them after the deluge. The sons of Japheth: Gomer and Magog and Media and Javan and Elisha, and Tubal and Meshech and Tiras. And the sons of Gomer: Ashkenaz and Riphas and Togarmah. And the sons of Javan: Elishah and Tharshish, Kittim and Rodanim. From these are parted the coastlanders of the nations among their lands, each man to his tongue, to their families, in their nations. And the sons of Ham: Cush and Mizraim and Phut and Canaan. And the sons of Cush: Sebah and Havilah and Sabtah and Raamah and Sabtechah. And the sons of Raamah: Sheba and Dedan. And Cush generates Nimrod. He starts to become a master in the earth. He becomes a master hunter before Yahweh Elohim. Therefore is it being said, "As Nimrod, the master hunter before Yahweh. And coming is the beginning of his kingdom to be Babel and Erech and Accad and Calneh, in the land of Shinar. (From that land fares forth Ashur, and building is he Nineveh and Rehoboth city, and Calah, and Desen between Nineveh and Calah. That city is great.) And Mizraim generates Ludim and Anamim and Lehabim and Naphtuhim and Pathrusim and Casluhim, whence fare forth the Philistim and Caphthorim. And Canaan generates Sidon, his firstborn, and Het. and the Jebusite and the Amorite and the Girgas.hite and the Hivite and the Arkite and the Sinite and the Arvadite and the Zemarite and the Hamathite. And afterwards the families of the Canaanite are scattered. And coming is the boundary of the Canaanite to be from Sidon, as you come toward Gerar unto Gaza, as you come toward Sodom and Gomorrah and Admah and Zebolim, unto Lasha. These are the sons of Ham, by their families, by their tongues, in their lands, in their nations. And to Shem sons are born. Moreover, he is the forefather of all the sons of Eber. He is a brother of Japheth, the eldest. The sons of Shem: Elam and Ashur, and Arphaxad and Lud and Aram and Cainan. And the sons of Aram: Uz and Hul and Gether and Mash. And Arphaxad generates Cainan and Cainan generates Shelach, and Shelach generates Eber. And to Eber two sons are born. The name of one is Peleg, for in his days the land was distributed. And the name of his brother is Joktan. And Joktan generates Almodad and Sheleph and Hazarmaveth and Jerah, and Hadoram and Uzal and Diklah, and Obal and Abimael and Sheba, and Ophir and Havilah and Jobab. All these are sons of Joktan. And coming is their dwelling to be from Mesha, till you come toward Sephar, a mountain of the east. These are the sons of Shem, by their families, by their tongues, in their lands, by their nations. These are the families of the sons of Noah, by their genealogical annals, in their nations. And from these the coastland nations are parted in the earth after the deluge.
(Gen 10:1-32)
Yes, pretty much. I would say that it is a speculative guess at how all the nations (of the known world about 1,000 Bc - which was when it was evidently written) were all descended from Noah's lot. It may lump all of Sumer, Akkad, Babylon and Assyria in together, but of course doesn't tell us where the inhabitants of the Americas, Europr, India and china came from. Their worldview was limited to Greece (Javan)and they hadn't yet heard of Persia.
Quote:
If they don't allow the shills of the current paradigm to influence them but go according to the facts we have provided, they should believe there really was a world-wide flood. But like you stated, we are not in the business of telling people what they should believe.
As I pointed out, Facts are what you have not provided, but what you have attempted to explain away with denial, speculation and some borrowed unscientific and unsound theories.
The camels and sloths are particularly clever touches.
I liked the crafty hint of 'other extinct animals' (fish, veloceraptors, edaphasaurus, Indracotherium and in fact all species Cambrian to Pliocene all in together - not, I would guarantee) in association with the suggestive 'strata laid down by water'.
This only looks as though it has anything to do with a global Flood if you already believe in one and are trying to prove it.
I actually can't find mych about Rehwinkel's 1951 publication except rare books on eBay, but, while I know I disapprove of just posting links 'to read', this one sets out the case why the Ark and Flood are not feasible and why, to scrabble back on topic from the the tedious and unconvincing lines of descent of everybody from the Lamb -sacrificing Yahweh worshipper, we are not going to find the Ark (up on a mountain at least), because there isn't one to be found.
I had not read the link before (If I had, I am sure I would have remembered!) but it is not long and I'd say required reading for anyone who wants to know just what the problems are with the Ark and flood scenario AND with the various explanations put forward to try to resolve them (I know the source is highly partial. It is putting the case against the genesis story.)
The Creationists really have to suppose that the Flood was actually a slow, deliberate filling up of the global tub, with the Ark floating daintily on top with only a fairly mild swell to hardly disturb the animals placidly huddled in their stalls listening to the persistent but not problematical rain on the Ark roof.
And after a month, with the Ark coming gently to rest on Ararat (which like the other mountains, has raised up to present height as imperceptibly as the smoothest elevator, in order to let the waters drain away and expose the land again) the animals debouch and spread out to proliferate in the newly exposed Pangean supercontinent, nibbling their way through the new-sprouted grass through the flood deposits (which are now a mere depth of inches) to where they all need to be for Pangaea to break up - very gently, mind you, and slide with hardly a shiver to their present continental positions.
The results of all the millions of years of geology have to happen in a year, and yet without any ripple or jolt to place the ark and its contents in danger or even alarm.
The article points out that this requires miracles. Just as surely as Eusebius' Noah has to become a wealthy industrialist with a myriad of advanced skills in order to make the story work.
Yes, pretty much. I would say that it is a speculative guess at how all the nations (of the known world about 1,000 Bc - which was when it was evidently written) were all descended from Noah's lot. It may lump all of Sumer, Akkad, Babylon and Assyria in together, but of course doesn't tell us where the inhabitants of the Americas, Europr, India and china came from. Their worldview was limited to Greece (Javan)and they hadn't yet heard of Persia.
As I pointed out, Facts are what you have not provided, but what you have attempted to explain away with denial, speculation and some borrowed unscientific and unsound theories.
Actually FACTS are exactly what we provided.
Just you saying the genealogy isn't accurate doesn't prove it isn't accurate. Care to PROVE it isn't? Care to PROVE those in the genealogy never existed, never came from Noah and sons?
I liked the crafty hint of 'other extinct animals' (fish, veloceraptors, edaphasaurus, Indracotherium and in fact all species Cambrian to Pliocene all in together - not, I would guarantee) in association with the suggestive 'strata laid down by water'.
This only looks as though it has anything to do with a global Flood if you already believe in one and are trying to prove it.
I actually can't find mych about Rehwinkel's 1951 publication except rare books on eBay, but, while I know I disapprove of just posting links 'to read', this one sets out the case why the Ark and Flood are not feasible and why, to scrabble back on topic from the the tedious and unconvincing lines of descent of everybody from the Lamb -sacrificing Yahweh worshipper, we are not going to find the Ark (up on a mountain at least), because there isn't one to be found.
I went to the link above. Right off the bat I noticed they are tiros. They can't even get the story correct. They stated:
"Since the purpose of the ark is to hold animals and plants, particularly two of "every living thing of all flesh . . . to keep them alive with thee" (Genesis 6:19), it will have to be constructed accordingly."
The idiots cannot even take the time to see what Noah was actually told to take on board: 2 or every unclean beast and 7 of every clean beast.
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. . . The Congo caves just looks a bit like Gustave Dore's c.1867 illustration from "The Divine Comedy".
) but it is not long and I'd say required reading for anyone who wants to know just what the problems are with the Ark and flood scenario AND with the various explanations put forward to try to resolve them (I know the source is highly partial. It is putting the case against the genesis story.)
