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Old 01-05-2014, 07:59 PM
 
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Is everything one does according to God's will, or can one act against God's will ?
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Old 01-05-2014, 10:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Anonymous_113 View Post
Is everything one does according to God's will, or can one act against God's will ?
Of course we can act against God's Will. It is done all the time. We have Dominion here. We will also suffer the consequences . . . either here and now or in the next life.
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Old 01-06-2014, 11:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Anonymous_113 View Post
Is everything one does according to God's will, or can one act against God's will ?
Hi Anonymous. Can we act against God's will? Not really because when we seem to be acting against his will it is what God has planned us to do, at the time. God has seen the end before the beginning so He knows exactly what will happen and what He needs to do to bring about the outcome he wants. It may be to show us that we need Him and can not succeed without him, or many other reasons but be sure God's will is always brought about every time without fail because if his will is thwarted he is not God.
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Old 01-06-2014, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Originally Posted by Anonymous_113 View Post
Is everything one does according to God's will, or can one act against God's will ?
I will tell you yes that everyone one does is according to God's Will. The murderer the thief the wars, the crime, the love, the friendships, etc... All is according to God's Will. Now having said that let's understand that when I say will, I mean that is is according to His desire at this time. These things happen because God is using them to accomplish His ultimate salvation of all mankind. By having this evil in the world, we will come to know and appreciate the GOODNESS far more than had we not experienced it in this world. So God's entire motive for all of this is ultimately for GOOD. For OUR Good.

Some view that as meaning that God is horrible for doing all these things but those things are being done according to our will also, the difference is that His desire ultimately ends up good because He has a plan for redemption and restoration and peace and harmony that builds on all of this evil. Whereas our will doesn't. Our will is really simply evil and our motive is self centered and based on our own personal lusts.

Isa_45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

God is truley awesome! And when we understand Him under this scope, one realizes that God is in COMPLETE control of EVERYTHING to the most incomprehensible detail.
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Old 01-06-2014, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Originally Posted by sschulz View Post
Hi Anonymous. Can we act against God's will? Not really because when we seem to be acting against his will it is what God has planned us to do, at the time. God has seen the end before the beginning so He knows exactly what will happen and what He needs to do to bring about the outcome he wants. It may be to show us that we need Him and can not succeed without him, or many other reasons but be sure God's will is always brought about every time without fail because if his will is thwarted he is not God.
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Old 01-06-2014, 02:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by trettep View Post
I will tell you yes that everyone one does is according to God's Will. The murderer the thief the wars, the crime, the love, the friendships, etc... All is according to God's Will. Now having said that let's understand that when I say will, I mean that is is according to His desire at this time. These things happen because God is using them to accomplish His ultimate salvation of all mankind. By having this evil in the world, we will come to know and appreciate the GOODNESS far more than had we not experienced it in this world. So God's entire motive for all of this is ultimately for GOOD. For OUR Good.

Some view that as meaning that God is horrible for doing all these things but those things are being done according to our will also, the difference is that His desire ultimately ends up good because He has a plan for redemption and restoration and peace and harmony that builds on all of this evil. Whereas our will doesn't. Our will is really simply evil and our motive is self centered and based on our own personal lusts.

Isa_45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

God is truley awesome! And when we understand Him under this scope, one realizes that God is in COMPLETE control of EVERYTHING to the most incomprehensible detail.
That is OT thinking, trettep and it should be cast aside as all the ancient ignorance and superstition of the OT should be.
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Old 01-06-2014, 03:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Anonymous_113 View Post
Is everything one does according to God's will, or can one act against God's will ?
One can act against God permissive will but never His decretive will.
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Old 01-06-2014, 03:29 PM
 
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trettep wrote:
Quote:
Isa_45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil:
I the LORD do all these things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
That is OT thinking, trettep and it should be cast aside as all the ancient ignorance and superstition of the OT should be.
Dear MysticPhD, it is the truth that God creates evil, that He formed the light and created darkness.
Do you believe all the prophecies concerning the Christ in the OT is also based upon a bunch of ignorance and superstition?
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Old 01-06-2014, 03:38 PM
 
Location: SW MO
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
That is OT thinking, trettep and it should be cast aside as all the ancient ignorance and superstition of the OT should be.
Yup, cast aside the OT, when the NT says, anyone who adds or removes anything from God's Word is accursed. Good idea. As far as the OP is concerned, if we believe God to be all-powerful and omniscient, then no, we cannot work outside His will, because everything we do is according to a plan made an eternity ago. He has known from the beginning of time every step of the path each of us will follow, and nothing we do is a surprise to Him.

Here's something I struggle with that ties in with the OP. Some of the basic tenets of Christianity are:

1. Jesus was sent to earth by God the Father to be an all-encompassing blood sacrifice for all the sins of all the sinners from that day to infinity.

2. God is omnipresent and omniscient, being everywhere at all times and knowing past, present and future, to infinity.

3. God is all-powerful, and can do anything.

4. God is a just God

5. Eve ate of the forbidden tree at the urging of the serpent, widely believed to be Lucifer, a fallen angel who was cast out of heaven for trying to overthrow God's rule of all things. Adam ate also. God then cast them out of the garden, and said all people born after this would be born into sin.

So, we are taught that salvation by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is a great and wonderful gift, and we must accept by faith the gospel he brought us if we are to live forever in eternity with God, rather than suffer forever in hell. I am a Christian, have been for years. But always I have struggled with the idea of a God who knew before any of the events of the Bible took place what was going to happen, then created Lucifer, an angel who would turn against Him and become Satan, then banish Satan but leave him in existence to deceive the man and woman he created. Knowing this, He created man and woman, and left them to be deceived. Then once they were deceived and disobeyed Him, he banished them from the garden and attributed their wrong to all who came after, requiring the killing of innocent animals to atone for various violations. In the course of time, He sends His only Son to earth to die as a blood sacrifice so that He might be able to forgive us all of the sin He attributed to us before we were born. So, in essence God created good- and evil. He allowed evil to exist, and corrupt His creation. Then He held all creation responsible for the acts of one man and woman, and eventually required His own Son to become a human sacrifice to atone for the sins of those yet unborn. (Human sacrifice was an abomination in the OT, punishable by death.) Why not simply destroy Lucifer for his treachery, or not create him at all. Why attribute a wrong to all mankind rather than hold the offender accountable? Why not simply forgive the wrong, without requiring the death of His Son? What good has evil brought to the world? What made it so indispensable that He has allowed it to continue and flourish? What is just about holding unborn people responsible for ancient crimes? Or punishing your flawless, innocent Son for the wrongs of others? That hits me as the equivalent of beating on of my daughters to death in order to forgive the other one for staying out too late. And what is just about punishing and tormenting a person forever(eternity without end) for the wrongs committed in a lifetime, which the Bible compares to a vapor(fading gas)?

These are questions I need answers to, but doubt I get any until I can ask God Himself, as every man I have ever asked has told me that we must take things on faith rather than question God so boldly. I have even been told these questions flirt with blasphemy. But one cannot ban questions from his mind when the answers elude him, and God gave us a mind to use it, not to follow blindly the words of men without working out our own salvation. My only reasonable assumption is that modern Christianity is far from what God intended, and the Bible itself may be somewhat corrupted by retranslation and revision over thousands of years by men with their own agendas. So I go forward as best I can, comforting myself with the idea that we will be judged based on what we know, and so will not be held accountable for following a book that was the best we had to work with. I sincerely hope God concerns Himself with the intent of the heart, as His actions toward David and other would seem to indicate, rather than expecting us all to follow the Bible to the letter. If the intent is what matters, I am good to go, as I genuinely try to do what I believe will be pleasing to Him. But if it is the letter, I may be in trouble...
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Old 01-06-2014, 03:42 PM
 
47,039 posts, read 29,894,751 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Dear MysticPhD, it is the truth that God creates evil, that He formed the light and created darkness.
Do you believe all the prophecies concerning the Christ in the OT is also based upon a bunch of ignorance and superstition?
The prophesies of Christ are the important parts of the OT and He fulfilled them. He also corrected the misunderstanding of what God's true nature IS. Everything was attributed to God by our ignorant ancestors because that is what they always thought. That is why they went out of their way to mistreat cripples, disfigured and handicapped people. They didn't want to treat them better than God did! If you can accept that as reasonable belief . . . we will never agree. I know you take the Bible literally . . . so we need to agree to disagree about that, Eusebius. I know that God inspired truth in the Bible . . . but not everything in it. I use the "mind of Christ" (WWJT) to separate the wheat from the chaff . . . you do not.
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