U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-02-2014, 04:12 PM
 
439 posts, read 374,378 times
Reputation: 73

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans12 View Post
What is meant by the word spirit in "The holy spirit"? Is it something of it's own, or is spirit used in the same way as somewhere in the bible?
HOLD ON TO YOUR HAT...

Please don't be fooled by the beliefs of the trinity. There is not one scripture that says there are 3. All of these 3 are one!!

I will tell you this, the Holy Spirit is known as several different things. Such as Holy Ghost and Spirit. This is referring to being baptized in the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues as the spirit gives the utterance. Almost every chapter in the NT speaks these names and is referring to the spirit that is now living inside us, God's spirit, and the evidence of that spirit inside us is speaking in tongues as the SPIRIT (God) gives the utterance. Don't be fooled by those who say speaking in tongues does not exist today. There is NO scripture to prove that. I have PLENTY of scriptures to prove them wrong.

God is absolutely and indivisibly one

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.
Galatians 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. In Jesus dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

He is the self-revelation of the one God, the incarnation of the full, undivided Godhead

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
I Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

God has revealed Himself as:
1. Father (in parental relationship to humanity)
2. In the Son (in human flesh)
3. And as the Holy Spirit (in spiritual action)

Deuteronomy 32:6 Do ye thus requite the Lord, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?
Isaiah 63:16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O Lord, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Galatians 4:4 But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law.
Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

The one God existed as Father, Word, and Spirit before His incarnation as Jesus Christ, the Son of God; and while Jesus walked on earth as God Himself incarnate, the Spirit of God continued to be omnipresent. However, the Bible does not teach that there are three distinct centers of consciousness in the Godhead or that Jesus is one of three divine persons.

Jesus is true God and true man as one divine-human person. We can distinguish these two aspects of Christ’s identity, but we cannot separate them. The Incarnation joined the fullness of deity to complete humanity.

Jesus possessed all elements of authentic humanity as originally created by God, without sin. Thus we can speak of Jesus as human in body, soul, spirit, mind, and will.

Matthew 26:38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
Luke 2:40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
Luke 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus.

According to the flesh, Jesus was the biological descendant of Adam and Eve, Abraham, David, and Mary.

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh.
Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Hebrews 2:14-17 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Hebrews 5:7-8 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; 8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered.

We should not speak of two spirits in Jesus, however, but of one Spirit in which deity and humanity are joined.

Christ’s humanity means that everything we humans can say of ourselves, we can say of Jesus in His earthly life, except for sin. In every way that we relate to God, Jesus related to God, except that He did not need to repent or be born again. Thus, when Jesus prayed, submitted His will to the Father, and spoke about God, He simply acted in accordance with His genuine humanity.

As Jehovah manifested in the flesh, Jesus is the only Savior.

Isaiah 45:21-23 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Matthew 1:21-23 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins. 22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Thus, Jesus is the only name given for our salvation.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

The Father was revealed to the world in the name of Jesus, the Son was given the name of Jesus at birth, and the Holy Spirit comes to believers in the name of Jesus.

Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

Thus, the apostles correctly fulfilled Christ’s command

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
  • to baptize “in the name [singular] of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost” by baptizing all converts with the invocation of the name of Jesus.

Last edited by JuniPearl; 02-02-2014 at 04:22 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-02-2014, 05:41 PM
 
1,312 posts, read 1,308,804 times
Reputation: 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBrown0830 View Post
HOLD ON TO YOUR HAT...

Please don't be fooled by the beliefs of the trinity. There is not one scripture that says there are 3. All of these 3 are one!!

I will tell you this, the Holy Spirit is known as several different things. Such as Holy Ghost and Spirit. This is referring to being baptized in the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues as the spirit gives the utterance. Almost every chapter in the NT speaks these names and is referring to the spirit that is now living inside us, God's spirit, and the evidence of that spirit inside us is speaking in tongues as the SPIRIT (God) gives the utterance. Don't be fooled by those who say speaking in tongues does not exist today. There is NO scripture to prove that. I have PLENTY of scriptures to prove them wrong.
Hi Jennifer,
Do you go to an UPC or UPC type church? The reason I ask is their view of the Godhead is not as a Trinity but Oneness or Jesus Only.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2014, 06:04 PM
 
439 posts, read 374,378 times
Reputation: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by pastorALly View Post
Hi Jennifer,
Do you go to an UPC or UPC type church? The reason I ask is their view of the Godhead is not as a Trinity but Oneness or Jesus Only.
I am proud to say I do go to a UPC church. My religion is my title, not my belief. We did not stem off of another doctrine or make up something that sounded good. And we definitely didn't wake up one day with a dream and put it into a book and call it our religion. The UPC has been a firm believer in the Bible, not to take out and not to put in. What it says is what we believe. We don't make it up as we go along. I am proud of my heritage and my UPC title =) I am 6th generation pentecost, my children are 7th generation. I have seen miracles happen, I have seen the dead raised up again and I have seen countless healings and blessings! I would not have been able to witness that if I had grown up in any other religion.

With that said, we do believe in one God. Therefore, Jesus is God. Not Jesus only. We call Him many names. God, Father, Jesus, Lord, Savior, Creator, Alpha and Omega, Rose of Sharon, Lily of the Valley, etc. He is all and everything in between. There is salvation in no one else! God has given no other name under heaven by which we must be saved.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-03-2014, 07:37 AM
 
1,312 posts, read 1,308,804 times
Reputation: 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBrown0830 View Post
I am proud to say I do go to a UPC church. My religion is my title, not my belief. We did not stem off of another doctrine or make up something that sounded good. And we definitely didn't wake up one day with a dream and put it into a book and call it our religion. The UPC has been a firm believer in the Bible, not to take out and not to put in. What it says is what we believe. We don't make it up as we go along. I am proud of my heritage and my UPC title =) I am 6th generation pentecost, my children are 7th generation. I have seen miracles happen, I have seen the dead raised up again and I have seen countless healings and blessings! I would not have been able to witness that if I had grown up in any other religion.

With that said, we do believe in one God. Therefore, Jesus is God. Not Jesus only. We call Him many names. God, Father, Jesus, Lord, Savior, Creator, Alpha and Omega, Rose of Sharon, Lily of the Valley, etc. He is all and everything in between. There is salvation in no one else! God has given no other name under heaven by which we must be saved.
Hi Jennifer,

You've certainly witnessed and had some incredible experiences.

At my first church position the senior pastor had been raised Pentecostal. One of his brothers was a Pentecostal pastor. One of the reasons our senior pastor left the Pentecostal church was their view of the Trinity.

When you wrote, "We did not stem off of another doctrine or make up something that sounded good. And we definitely didn't wake up one day with a dream and put it into a book and call it our religion," what and/or whom were you specifically referring and more importantly why? I'm not going on that "I'm right-You're Wrong" road. Nor, am I going to throw stones. I do at times have questions regarding other faiths doctrines and writings.

Back to the Godhead. I've heard it called Oneness and Jesus Only, but usually Modalism. Modalism goes back to the third century teachings of theologian Sabellius, and states the members of the Trinity are not three distinct, eternally co-existing persons. Instead they are three modes of one God that can not and do not co-exist.

When you wrote, "Therefore, Jesus is God," are you agreeing with Modalism that Jesus was only fully divine and not fully human?

In 2012, Bishop T.D. Jakes claimed to have changed his view from Modalism to Trinitarianism.
Quote:
Bishop Jakes said, "How they describe and explain the Godhead in a traditional Oneness sense is very different than how traditional Trinitarians describe the Gospel. I was in that church for a number of years and raised in that church for a number of years," Jakes said.

"As I began to progress, I began to understand that some of the dogma that I was taught in the Oneness movement was very dogmatic, very narrow and not the very best description of how I now understand the Godhead," he continued.

"My struggle as I was ordained in the Oneness church was in several passages – sometimes the doctrine fit, sometimes it doesn't. When the doctrine becomes the primary thing, you force it into fitting in places where it doesn't fit. I really at this point in my life don't want to force my theology to fit in my denomination."

Referencing Gen. 1:26, Luke 3:21-22, John 14:11 and other passages that he believes point to Jesus, God the Father and the Holy Spirit as having unique distinctions, Jakes revealed: "That began to make me re-think some of my ideas and some of the things I was taught."

"I got kind of quiet about it for a while. When you're a leader and you're in a position of authority sometimes you have to back up ... for a minute and really think those things through."
Modalism
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-03-2014, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 6,300,476 times
Reputation: 1605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
You've started what? 3 different threads on the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit is the 3rd person of the Trinity. He is a person. He is not simply God's spirit. He is an actual person.

Once again...here is a link to my post listing the verses supporting this.

//www.city-data.com/forum/33129673-post5.html
GOD IS SPIRIT. There are two types of spirit in the universe - Christ and anti-Christ. Guess which one God is?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-03-2014, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 6,300,476 times
Reputation: 1605
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Nope, that is a man made teaching enforced by the decree of a Roman Emperor and not found ever TAUGHT in Scripture and not believed in the 1st century at all.
I agree. There is no mention of a trinity in the bible. I'm surprised so many bible-ists cling to it. Somewhere in Revelation I believe there are 7 spirits of God if I recall correctly.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-03-2014, 11:11 AM
 
439 posts, read 374,378 times
Reputation: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by pastorALly View Post
Hi Jennifer,

You've certainly witnessed and had some incredible experiences.

When you wrote, "We did not stem off of another doctrine or make up something that sounded good. And we definitely didn't wake up one day with a dream and put it into a book and call it our religion," what and/or whom were you specifically referring and more importantly why? I'm not going on that "I'm right-You're Wrong" road. Nor, am I going to throw stones. I do at times have questions regarding other faiths doctrines and writings.
When I wrote that I promise I wasn't trying to stir up anything. I was just stating we didn't make up a religion out of thin air like some people claim. There's a website called jesusissavior, something like that. It's pretty much devoted to persecuting the UPC and Pentecostals in general. I'm really thinking about getting on there and giving a piece of my mind, in the nicest way I can...if that's possible. The things said on there could almost be considered a hate crime. It's pretty bad. So that's why I stated what I did. Also, I do know some religions, I won't name which ones. That have stemmed off of the Pentecost faith and have put their own twist on it, such as trinity and what not. And I also know of a "religion" that was founded by a man who had a dream and called it "from God" and began his own movement and has deceived many. I promise, I wasn't trying to point fingers or stir trouble. I was clearing up any preconceived ideas, if there were any

Quote:
Back to the Godhead. I've heard it called Oneness and Jesus Only, but usually Modalism. Modalism goes back to the third century teachings of theologian Sabellius, and states the members of the Trinity are not three distinct, eternally co-existing persons. Instead they are three modes of one God that can not and do not co-exist.

When you wrote, "Therefore, Jesus is God," are you agreeing with Modalism that Jesus was only fully divine and not fully human?

In 2012, Bishop T.D. Jakes claimed to have changed his view from Modalism to Trinitarianism.
Modalism
I am going to be real honest... I'm not educated on other religions or faiths, I know very basic information about certain ones, but that's it. I've never used words like Modalism and we don't use those words in our church. I will have to go educate myself to better understand what you're asking.

I haven't heard a T.D. Jakes sermon in MANY years, so this is the first I've heard about him in a long time. I never knew what he believed and I never knew he switched his views. He was never part of the UPC and I don't even know if he was ever affiliated with Pentecost. Many oneness churches could be Baptist or nondenominational. Oneness could come from many places other than UPC. With that said, I can't argue what he said or what he believes because I don't know how it was taught to him. It's extremely important if you are going to preach oneness, you do it the right way to where people understand it. In my lifetime, I've seen many trinity believing people convert to oneness, but I never recall seeing one of our own convert to trinity. We leave no room for questions or error. If there are questions and someone doesn't quite understand, we take time in a one on one setting to allow them to ask whatever they want and we can get down to their level and answer every question they have. We had a big family join our church a couple years ago and they believed in the trinity. Her daughter was even named Trinity. Lol. They were very simple and not very well educated. They always believed in the trinity because that's just how they were taught to believe. A lot of time was spent with that family to show them, on their level, the truth about the Godhead. I remember seeing them break down and cry when it finally clicked. They saw it, written right in the Bible, for themselves. No one was pressuring them, no one was shoving it or cramming it down their throats, it was all done at their pace and on their level.

I think it's very important to really know your Bible and know about the Godhead. There should not be any room for error or questions. You have to know your "stuff" if you're going to pastor a church. Pastors have such a hard job and will ultimately end up answering to God in the end if they have been leading the sheep astray. That's why I'm incredibly thankful for my amazing pastor! He is one of the most intelligent people I know when it comes to understanding Gods Word.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-03-2014, 11:56 AM
 
439 posts, read 374,378 times
Reputation: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by pastorALly View Post
Modalism
Looking at your chart and I'm seeing a lot of error with it. That is not how the UPC believes. Maybe this might help...

Click image for larger version

Name:	GODHEAD.jpg
Views:	901
Size:	41.0 KB
ID:	124779
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-03-2014, 12:37 PM
 
18,173 posts, read 13,222,081 times
Reputation: 9271
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBrown0830 View Post
Looking at your chart and I'm seeing a lot of error with it. That is not how the UPC believes. Maybe this might help...

Attachment 124779
I am curious, though this is off thread.

How does the UPC explain the very clear verses that speak of Jesus as a separate being/person (In scripture there is no distinction between the two, only in English) and "at the Father's right hand" etc?

Same person cannot sit at his own right hand, approach himself etc?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-03-2014, 01:51 PM
 
1,312 posts, read 1,308,804 times
Reputation: 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
I agree. There is no mention of a trinity in the bible. I'm surprised so many bible-ists cling to it. Somewhere in Revelation I believe there are 7 spirits of God if I recall correctly.
1. What is your alternative to the Trinity?
2. What are the 7 spirits of God?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top