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Old 02-16-2014, 05:24 AM
 
441 posts, read 331,528 times
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[quote=thrillobyte;33493440]
Quote:
The first things you have to remember about God and Adam:
1. God knew beforehand Adam would sin
God did plan for that "eventuality" didn't He? And it had to be that way because man, for the ultimate intention of God, must always face the test that his allegiance be proven.

Quote:
2. God may have created Adam perfect but He still created Adam with a nature and capacity to sin.
No so, exactly. Adam was not created perfect. God is perfect. Adam was just "good". Consider free agency to be the freedom to choose. In this case, free to choose God's way that would have furthered his perfection in God to a predetermined conclusion set in Him, i.e., incarnation. Read the account of "fallen" Abraham in that light and how, left to himself for years, chose to believe God that led him to become the "father of our faith". Question: Even more did Abraham have to capacity sin. Why then didn't he chose to transgress as Adam. He had less of God as a witness with him than did Adam and succeeded? Conclusion: Does not even fallen man, if God hasn't turned him over to a reprobate condition, have the capacity to obey God. Here: ". . then began men to call upon the name of the LORD." Genesis 4:26 (KJV)

Quote:
One could honestly argue that God deliberately set Adam up to fail. Adam never had a chance. Especially with a power-hungry, ambitious woman like Eve hanging around him. Just kidding, girls.
Not if we are to understand God to be a loving Father. He wouldn't do that and said so. Would you?
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Old 02-16-2014, 05:30 AM
 
2,847 posts, read 2,461,461 times
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- God Said, 'Be Holy, As I Am Holy'.

God wouldn't tell His people to do something unless we were able to do.

As I believe this is also why God gives us the spirit of His holiness.
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Old 02-16-2014, 05:38 AM
 
441 posts, read 331,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
No one goes directly to heaven when they die...They are in the ground until the Resurrection.

Only their bodies, Richard.

"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" John 11:25-26 (KJV)

"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." 2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV)

And here:

"And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies."
Romans 8:23 (ESV)

Hope that helps
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Old 02-16-2014, 08:29 PM
 
48 posts, read 43,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Croref View Post
. . . . God doesn't give man commands without the power to obey those commands.

Is that really a true about God?
God does not give commands.

He said of yourselves you can do nothing so why would He give commands?
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Old 02-16-2014, 09:19 PM
 
11,752 posts, read 7,594,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RevelationWriter View Post
- God Said, 'Be Holy, As I Am Holy'.

God wouldn't tell His people to do something unless we were able to do.

As I believe this is also why God gives us the spirit of His holiness.
1 Samuel 15:3 ESV / 10 helpful votes

Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”

Killing of children is not Holy at all.
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Old 02-16-2014, 10:28 PM
 
13,958 posts, read 12,839,193 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Croref View Post
Indeed, I agree! However, might I ask what rebellion would be all about?

God gave Adam a command to obey. It was expected of him to obey it? __and Adam was without sin.
I've come to believe we have so exaggerated this thing of Adam sinning that it's like a bite out of an apple turned the entire cosmos on its head; as if the results of Adam's sin somehow reached to the ends of the cosmos, polluting the entire universe with sin quadrilions of light years out into the most distant galaxies. This is just complete utter man-made nonsense. How did we get to this level of insanity?

It is man who has invented all this silliness found in the Torah with fallen angels, blood sacrifices, floods, Nephilim and all the other religious rot.

Quite simply, man evolved from CroMagnon to Neanderthal to modern man. Somewhere along the way he developed the ability to paint pictures on walls, then to communicate, and began to tell these fantastic tales of gods, demons, giants, handing this phantasmagoric stories down through countless generations until writing was developed whereupon all these fantasies and legends were put into written form. Christ comes along to try to simplify things by explaining God's love in its most basic form, but by 500 AD His simple theology begins its long devolution into dogma so complex as to become abstract. What could be explained in one small gospel in 30 AD slowly begins to take an encyclopedia twice the size of Britannica--seventy volumes long--to explain. Christian theology today is more complex than the Internal Revenue Code, which one accountant once famously quipped that

Quote:
The Code has grown so long that it has become challenging even to figure out how
long it is.
The most recent study put the number of words in the Code in the vicinity of 3.7 million words.
3.7 millions words is a drop in the bucket when you stop to think that there are over 30,000 Christian denominations of all flavors, stripes and shapes--each with their own set of encyclopedias on how to interpret the Bible.

Absolute madness, which describes the state of man's distorted Christianized mind perfectly in 2014.
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Old 02-17-2014, 12:50 PM
 
441 posts, read 331,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I've come to believe we have so exaggerated this thing of Adam sinning that it's like a bite out of an apple turned the entire cosmos on its head; as if the results of Adam's sin somehow reached to the ends of the cosmos, polluting the entire universe with sin quadrilions of light years out into the most distant galaxies. This is just complete utter man-made nonsense. How did we get to this level of insanity?

It is man who has invented all this silliness found in the Torah with fallen angels, blood sacrifices, floods, Nephilim and all the other religious rot.

Quite simply, man evolved from CroMagnon to Neanderthal to modern man. Somewhere along the way he developed the ability to paint pictures on walls, then to communicate, and began to tell these fantastic tales of gods, demons, giants, handing this phantasmagoric stories down through countless generations until writing was developed whereupon all these fantasies and legends were put into written form. Christ comes along to try to simplify things by explaining God's love in its most basic form, but by 500 AD His simple theology begins its long devolution into dogma so complex as to become abstract. What could be explained in one small gospel in 30 AD slowly begins to take an encyclopedia twice the size of Britannica--seventy volumes long--to explain. Christian theology today is more complex than the Internal Revenue Code, which one accountant once famously quipped that



3.7 millions words is a drop in the bucket when you stop to think that there are over 30,000 Christian denominations of all flavors, stripes and shapes--each with their own set of encyclopedias on how to interpret the Bible.

Absolute madness, which describes the state of man's distorted Christianized mind perfectly in 2014.

Naah! Sounds like you got your own religious thing going.
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Old 02-17-2014, 12:57 PM
 
18,173 posts, read 12,467,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
The first things you have to remember about God and Adam:
1. God knew beforehand Adam would sin
2. God may have created Adam perfect but He still created Adam with a nature and capacity to sin

One could honestly argue that God deliberately set Adam up to fail. Adam never had a chance. Especially with a power-hungry, ambitious woman like Eve hanging around him. Just kidding, girls.
God knew he could sin, but it was Adams' choice to do so. He did not set him up as God gave Adam the choice to obey or not, and the capability to chose.
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Old 02-17-2014, 01:01 PM
 
18,173 posts, read 12,467,427 times
Reputation: 9223
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I've come to believe we have so exaggerated this thing of Adam sinning that it's like a bite out of an apple turned the entire cosmos on its head; as if the results of Adam's sin somehow reached to the ends of the cosmos, polluting the entire universe with sin quadrilions of light years out into the most distant galaxies. This is just complete utter man-made nonsense. How did we get to this level of insanity?

It is man who has invented all this silliness found in the Torah with fallen angels, blood sacrifices, floods, Nephilim and all the other religious rot.

Quite simply, man evolved from CroMagnon to Neanderthal to modern man. Somewhere along the way he developed the ability to paint pictures on walls, then to communicate, and began to tell these fantastic tales of gods, demons, giants, handing this phantasmagoric stories down through countless generations until writing was developed whereupon all these fantasies and legends were put into written form. Christ comes along to try to simplify things by explaining God's love in its most basic form, but by 500 AD His simple theology begins its long devolution into dogma so complex as to become abstract. What could be explained in one small gospel in 30 AD slowly begins to take an encyclopedia twice the size of Britannica--seventy volumes long--to explain. Christian theology today is more complex than the Internal Revenue Code, which one accountant once famously quipped that



3.7 millions words is a drop in the bucket when you stop to think that there are over 30,000 Christian denominations of all flavors, stripes and shapes--each with their own set of encyclopedias on how to interpret the Bible.

Absolute madness, which describes the state of man's distorted Christianized mind perfectly in 2014.
And anyone should accept your word on this ... why?
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Old 02-17-2014, 01:02 PM
 
441 posts, read 331,528 times
Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
God knew he could sin, but it was Adams' choice to do so. He did not set him up as God gave Adam the choice to obey or not, and the capability to chose.
Very well said. Kudos!! This is God's way of revealing our heart to see what is in it and the reasons why.
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