U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-17-2014, 03:09 PM
 
47,071 posts, read 29,911,495 times
Reputation: 6549

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
And anyone should accept your word on this ... why?
Because it is logical and reasonable and in accord with our modern knowledge and understanding. It is an easy extrapolation from the Gospel of love taught and exemplified so unambiguously by Jesus.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-17-2014, 03:30 PM
 
18,173 posts, read 12,473,749 times
Reputation: 9224
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Because it is logical and reasonable and in accord with our modern knowledge and understanding. It is an easy extrapolation from the Gospel of love taught and exemplified so unambiguously by Jesus.
Only to you. I see logically, a loving father who gave His Son every chance and ... the Son rejected the love.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2014, 03:48 PM
 
47,071 posts, read 29,911,495 times
Reputation: 6549
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Only to you. I see logically, a loving father who gave His Son every chance and ... the Son rejected the love.
If your young toddler (son) rejects his first lesson as a developing child . . . you would see that as rejecting you and your love???? Adam had just been born (created) had no knowledge of anything, period. We all experience that stage of life after our birth with our parents as the all-providing and loving God in infancy and toddledom. We had to be taught very basic things . . . the most important is the distinction between good and bad (knowledge of Good and Evil). If you fail to see the parallels in the metaphor . . . you are not trying.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2014, 08:18 PM
 
13,959 posts, read 12,843,916 times
Reputation: 5279
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
If your young toddler (son) rejects his first lesson as a developing child . . . you would see that as rejecting you and your love???? Adam had just been born (created) had no knowledge of anything, period. We all experience that stage of life after our birth with our parents as the all-providing and loving God in infancy and toddledom. We had to be taught very basic things . . . the most important is the distinction between good and bad (knowledge of Good and Evil). If you fail to see the parallels in the metaphor . . . you are not trying.
Exactly. According to modern Christian theology good human fathers are much more loving than the way Father God treats His children who die in ignorance and error based on receiving faulty religious instruction like Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, etc. I do not know a single loving father who would throw his child into a torture chamber because the child transgressed against him. But God the Father and Jesus have no twinge of conscious at all about throwing a hundred BILLION people into eternal torment in flames merely for making a wrong decision about who to follow in this life, most often based on religious upbringing. The whole idea is so totally ludicrous it would be laughable if millions of fundamentalists didn't actually believe this rot.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2014, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Arizona
24,997 posts, read 11,627,222 times
Reputation: 2029
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
... the Son rejected the love.
Could you elaborate?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2014, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Arizona
24,997 posts, read 11,627,222 times
Reputation: 2029
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Exactly. According to modern Christian theology good human fathers are much more loving than the way Father God treats His children who die in ignorance and error based on receiving faulty religious instruction like Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, etc. I do not know a single loving father who would throw his child into a torture chamber because the child transgressed against him. But God the Father and Jesus have no twinge of conscious at all about throwing a hundred BILLION people into eternal torment in flames merely for making a wrong decision about who to follow in this life, most often based on religious upbringing. The whole idea is so totally ludicrous it would be laughable if millions of fundamentalists didn't actually believe this rot.
Those who believe this follow the decaying tree of Religion, which has become corrupted.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2014, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,671 posts, read 1,731,036 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Correct. Adam could obey and chose not to.

Many believe God saw the fall and did nothing and some believe he made the fall. In either case that denigrates God significantly as to love and power. Both are far different than seeing the potential and letting man make the choice.



I must disagree. God knew Adam was going to disobey, and made provision. 2 Esdras 6:1-6. 1 And he said unto me, In the beginning, when the earth was made, before the borders of the world stood, or ever the winds blew,
2 Before it thundered and lightened, or ever the foundations of paradise were laid,
3 Before the fair flowers were seen, or ever the moveable powers were established, before the innumerable multitude of angels were gathered together,
4 Or ever the heights of the air were lifted up, before the measures of the firmament were named, or ever the chimneys in Sion were hot,
5 And ere the present years were sought out, and or ever the inventions of them that now sin were turned, before they were sealed that have gathered faith for a treasure:
6 Then did I consider these things, and they all were made through me alone, and through none other: by me also they shall be ended, and by none other”

God had already consider every thing, even Adam actions. that’s why he’s the Alpha and the Omega
of all things.

the provision
2 Esdras 6:7-9,
7 Then answered I and said, What shall be the parting asunder of the times? or when shall be the end of the first, and the beginning of it that followeth?
8 And he said unto me, From Abraham unto Isaac, when Jacob and Esau were born of him, Jacob's hand held first the heel of Esau.
9 For Esau is the end of the world, and Jacob is the beginning of it that followeth.

Jacob is the beginning after the old. his name was changed to Israel. who comes from Israel. the CHURCH at ZION.


this is the NEW CREATION, here is the provision, one must be born again. we now are all Adams in the Garden again, (so to speak), with the power of free choice. not of dead works, but of the power of God in Christ Jesus to all who believe. for it is the Gospel of God, his power, unto salvation.
Romans 1:16 "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek”.
Romans 9:6 "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son. 10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; 11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.). Romans 11:29 "For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance”. 2 Timothy 1:9 "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began”.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-18-2014, 01:36 AM
 
47,071 posts, read 29,911,495 times
Reputation: 6549
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
If your young toddler (son) rejects his first lesson as a developing child . . . you would see that as rejecting you and your love???? Adam had just been born (created) had no knowledge of anything, period. We all experience that stage of life after our birth with our parents as the all-providing and loving God in infancy and toddledom. We had to be taught very basic things . . . the most important is the distinction between good and bad (knowledge of Good and Evil). If you fail to see the parallels in the metaphor . . . you are not trying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Exactly. According to modern Christian theology good human fathers are much more loving than the way Father God treats His children who die in ignorance and error based on receiving faulty religious instruction like Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, etc. I do not know a single loving father who would throw his child into a torture chamber because the child transgressed against him. But God the Father and Jesus have no twinge of conscious at all about throwing a hundred BILLION people into eternal torment in flames merely for making a wrong decision about who to follow in this life, most often based on religious upbringing. The whole idea is so totally ludicrous it would be laughable if millions of fundamentalists didn't actually believe this rot.
It is truly troubling that human compassion and agape love is still so stunted among so many, Thrill. It makes you rethink the actual depths of barbarity from which we have had to evolve. It is mind-boggling.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-20-2014, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Nanaimo, Canada
1,808 posts, read 1,697,985 times
Reputation: 976
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
God knew he could sin, but it was Adams' choice to do so. He did not set him up as God gave Adam the choice to obey or not, and the capability to chose.
Well, how did that choice come about?

God put the Tree in front of Adam and said 'DO NOT TOUCH' in big letters.

Let me say that again: God put the Tree in front of Adam and punished him for being tempted. That's like deliberately putting a glass of beer in front of an alcoholic and then shouting when they drink.

If you didn't want him to do it, why are you making it so easy?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-20-2014, 02:41 PM
 
441 posts, read 331,628 times
Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredNotBob View Post
Well, how did that choice come about?

God put the Tree in front of Adam and said 'DO NOT TOUCH' in big letters.

Let me say that again: God put the Tree in front of Adam and punished him for being tempted. That's like deliberately putting a glass of beer in front of an alcoholic and then shouting when they drink.

If you didn't want him to do it, why are you making it so easy?
He didn't punish Jesus when He was tempted. How 'come?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:42 AM.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top