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Old 02-22-2014, 03:07 PM
 
238 posts, read 239,462 times
Reputation: 50

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Revelation 1:1-3
“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants —
things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it
by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the word of God,
and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw.
Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy,
and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.”

IMO, John’s Introduction and Benediction is simply his opinion
because neither Father God nor Jesus told the underlined to John.
He shared the “prophecy” and “the Revelation of Jesus Christ” after this.

Anyway, I’ll use this as an excuse to write about the false church doctrine of cessationism.

IMO, the apostles naturally supposed that the gospel would continue to be spread
like wild-fire throughout the whole (small) world in a fairly short period of time
… and that God’s filling of heaven would soon be accomplished.
Because, in the NT there are various other time-related comments such as:
“You also be patient … for the coming of the Lord is at hand.” (James 5:8)

Here’s the KEY … Even before the passing of the original apostles,
Satan was seeing to it that the spreading of the gospel was greatly hindered.

Just in case you have forgotten … Satan earned the right to be
“the god/ruler of this world/age” (John 12:31, 2 Corinthians 4:4).
And also, his incredible intelligence allowed him to easily be
the greatest liar and deceiver in the history of the world.
“the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world” (Revelation 12:9).
“the whole world lies in the power of the evil one” (1 John 5:19).
“there is no truth in him ... he is a liar and the father of it” (John 8:44).

Another KEY …
What had caused the gospel to be spread so successfully during NT times
was the accompanying signs, wonders, and miracles (SWMs)!
But, some years after the passing of the original apostles,
Satan deceived the large churches to abandon God’s SWMs.

The sad truth is …
Powerful men preferred to reserve the power and glory of the church for themselves!

The explanation is … Throughout Christian history,
not all Christian believers have been baptized with the Holy Spirit by Jesus,
and not all have been given some of the 9 spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 12:1-11.
Because … this baptism is an anointing for some kind of special ministry.
(Space does not permit proving this has nothing to do with being born-again.)

Some men who managed to get themselves in church leadership
did NOT have this baptism of anointing and some the 9 spiritual power gifts!
So, these ones especially were against the continuation of these things.
Obviously they felt their power, authority, prestige, jobs, etc. would be threatened.

The bottom line is …
Satan saw to it that God’s power was no longer in control of the church,
but his main focus was specifically on the big powerful church organizations.

Please note: Jesus may choose to give …
the baptism with the Holy Spirit (and one or more of the 9 spiritual power gifts)
to any Christian, especially to those who do not have unbelief in these things!
And note that sometimes a person is born-again and Spirit-baptized simultaneously
(as was the case on the Day of Pentecost).
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Old 02-22-2014, 03:39 PM
 
758 posts, read 653,701 times
Reputation: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by evangelist-77 View Post
Revelation 1:1-3
“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants —
things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it
by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the word of God,
and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw.
Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy,
and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.”

IMO, John’s Introduction and Benediction is simply his opinion
because neither Father God nor Jesus told the underlined to John.
He shared the “prophecy” and “the Revelation of Jesus Christ” after this.

Anyway, I’ll use this as an excuse to write about the false church doctrine of cessationism.

IMO, the apostles naturally supposed that the gospel would continue to be spread
like wild-fire throughout the whole (small) world in a fairly short period of time
… and that God’s filling of heaven would soon be accomplished.
Because, in the NT there are various other time-related comments such as:
“You also be patient … for the coming of the Lord is at hand.” (James 5:8)

Here’s the KEY … Even before the passing of the original apostles,
Satan was seeing to it that the spreading of the gospel was greatly hindered.

Just in case you have forgotten … Satan earned the right to be
“the god/ruler of this world/age” (John 12:31, 2 Corinthians 4:4).
And also, his incredible intelligence allowed him to easily be
the greatest liar and deceiver in the history of the world.
“the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world” (Revelation 12:9).
“the whole world lies in the power of the evil one” (1 John 5:19).
“there is no truth in him ... he is a liar and the father of it” (John 8:44).

Another KEY …
What had caused the gospel to be spread so successfully during NT times
was the accompanying signs, wonders, and miracles (SWMs)!
But, some years after the passing of the original apostles,
Satan deceived the large churches to abandon God’s SWMs.

The sad truth is …
Powerful men preferred to reserve the power and glory of the church for themselves!

The explanation is … Throughout Christian history,
not all Christian believers have been baptized with the Holy Spirit by Jesus,
and not all have been given some of the 9 spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 12:1-11.
Because … this baptism is an anointing for some kind of special ministry.
(Space does not permit proving this has nothing to do with being born-again.)

Some men who managed to get themselves in church leadership
did NOT have this baptism of anointing and some the 9 spiritual power gifts!
So, these ones especially were against the continuation of these things.
Obviously they felt their power, authority, prestige, jobs, etc. would be threatened.

The bottom line is …
Satan saw to it that God’s power was no longer in control of the church,
but his main focus was specifically on the big powerful church organizations.

Please note: Jesus may choose to give …
the baptism with the Holy Spirit (and one or more of the 9 spiritual power gifts)
to any Christian, especially to those who do not have unbelief in these things!
And note that sometimes a person is born-again and Spirit-baptized simultaneously
(as was the case on the Day of Pentecost).


READ THE TEXT:!!!!!!! The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him ; gave - WHO ????

Jesus Christ !!!

Some people read with absolutely NO -COMPREHENSION of what is written.

Last edited by Atkutuq; 02-22-2014 at 03:48 PM..
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Old 02-22-2014, 05:04 PM
 
238 posts, read 239,462 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atkutuq View Post
Some people read with absolutely NO -COMPREHENSION of what is written.
Amenski, broski ... dost thou understandeth anything I wrote?
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Old 02-22-2014, 06:02 PM
 
758 posts, read 653,701 times
Reputation: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by evangelist-77 View Post
Amenski, broski ... dost thou understandeth anything I wrote?

Yes indeed! I read it and I don't by 90% of what you wrote. it is human reasoning.

Jesus Christ wrote Seven Epistles to the Seven Churches.

In the opening it was Jesus Christ who sign-ified it through his Holy Angel to John.

good luck. Maybe others will understand what you wrote but I sure don't
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Old 02-22-2014, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,671 posts, read 1,730,179 times
Reputation: 117
2 evangelist-77

Interesting post. but I will only respond to to the Latter part.


Some men who managed to get themselves in church leadership
did NOT have this baptism of anointing and some the 9 spiritual power gifts!
So, these ones especially were against the continuation of these things.
Obviously they felt their power, authority, prestige, jobs, etc. would be threatened.

The bottom line is …
Satan saw to it that God’s power was no longer in control of the church,
but his main focus was specifically on the big powerful church organizations.

Please note: Jesus may choose to give …
the baptism with the Holy Spirit (and one or more of the 9 spiritual power gifts)
to any Christian, especially to those who do not have unbelief in these things!
And note that sometimes a person is born-again and Spirit-baptized simultaneously
(as was the case on the Day of Pentecost).


this is true, but that’s not new news. Jude 1:4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

but I must disagree, on the part, “The bottom line is …
Satan saw to it that God’s power was no longer in control of the church”. the gifts, and the appointment of Apostle, prophets, and teachers are still in the Church today. those gifts did not die out with the Last apostle? I use a question mark there, because in 1 Corinthians 12:28 those gifts continue in “HIS” church. "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. God, the Lord Jesus, he set, meaning ordain, or appoint in the churches these gifts. so, not all “churches”, maybe or may not have GOD ORDAINED, gifts.

as for the Letter to the churches in Revelation, IMO, it seem more about The danger of Syncretism, the most. God is calling his Church out of the effect of Judaism, and any other false doctrine of men, just as you mention above.

and the Lord Jesus in Revelation 1:1 is God.
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Old 02-23-2014, 09:35 AM
 
238 posts, read 239,462 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
... but I must disagree, on the part, “The bottom line is …
Satan saw to it that God’s power was no longer in control of the church”.
the gifts, and the appointment of Apostle, prophets, and teachers are still in the Church today. those gifts did not die out with the Last apostle? I use a question mark there, because in 1 Corinthians 12:28 those gifts continue in “HIS” church. "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. God, the Lord Jesus, he set, meaning ordain, or appoint in the churches these gifts. so, not all “churches”, maybe or may not have GOD ORDAINED, gifts.
Thanks for your interesting response.

I was commenting on the huge difference between the NT church
<<and>>
the large powerful church organizations after about 350 a.d., which evolved into the EOC and the RCC.

These Big Babies threw God's Spirit and His spiritual power gifts out of their churches
in favor of being man-controlled, which has never changed.

However, God began returning His end-time Pentecostal-Charismatic churches in the early 1900's.

IMO, many churches which fight against this end-times Move Of God will fall by the wayside
(along with their preciuous mortgages and those of their leaders),
and will be replaced by smaller Spirit-filled house churches, which will be dedicated to actually doing
God's will ... evangelizing with the FULL gospel, which includes God's signs, wonders, and miracles!
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:15 PM
2K5Gx2km
 
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by evangelist-77 View Post
Revelation 1:1-3
“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants —
things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it
by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the word of God,
and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw.
Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy,
and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.”

IMO, John’s Introduction and Benediction is simply his opinion
because neither Father God nor Jesus told the underlined to John.
He shared the “prophecy” and “the Revelation of Jesus Christ” after this.
If I understand you correctly you are suggesting that God gave John the Revelation but that the timing of this - that it '...must shortly take place' - was only John's opinion.

There are at least two things wrong with this:

1) How do you separate what is his opinion from what is the revelation seeing that he is inspired of God. His writing is for faith and practice and was guided by the Holy Spirit according to the doctrine of inspiration. Even if this is not part of the revelation it is sanctioned by God. You also have no clear indication that it is just his opinion. What seems to be driving your assumption is the unsettling fact that this revelation did not shortly take place thereby nullifying the whole thing as anything but of God.

2) Later in the book it is clear that this is not just John's opinion as seen in verses like - 22:6 'The angel said to me "These words are reliable and true. The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets has sent his angel to show his servants what must happen soon."'

Clearly this is not John's opinion and this is saying that the words of the prophecy (The Revelation) are reliable and true and that it will happen soon.

In 22:10 the angel says - 'Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book because the time is near.'

It interesting that in Daniel he is told to seal up those word because the time is not near.

Then in 22:12 - 'Look, I am coming soon... I am Alpha and Omega...'

Here you even have Jesus saying he is coming soon.

Then he even testifies to that fact in 22:20 - 'The one who testifies to these things says 'Yes, I am coming soon...'

It is clear form these verses that your assumption does not hold.
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Old 02-23-2014, 03:10 PM
 
238 posts, read 239,462 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
If I understand you correctly you are suggesting that God gave John the Revelation but
that the timing of this - that it '...must shortly take place' - was only John's opinion.
In 22:10 the angel says -
'Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book because the time is near.'
It interesting that in Daniel he is told to seal up those word because the time is not near.
Then in 22:12 - 'Look, I am coming soon... I am Alpha and Omega...'
Here you even have Jesus saying he is coming soon.
Then he even testifies to that fact in 22:20 -
'The one who testifies to these things says 'Yes, I am coming soon...'
It is clear from these verses that your assumption does not hold.
Thanks, you are absolutely correct ... Rev 22 proves that my assumption does not hold.

T'was a flash in the pan assumption ... with no reserach behind it.

However, the main purpose of the thread is to talk about the historical church leading up until now.
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Old 02-23-2014, 03:46 PM
2K5Gx2km
 
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by evangelist-77 View Post
Thanks, you are absolutely correct ... Rev 22 proves that my assumption does not hold.

T'was a flash in the pan assumption ... with no reserach behind it.

However, the main purpose of the thread is to talk about the historical church leading up until now.
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