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Good point! (edited my OP) I meant "good fruit". Our fruit will show what we are. The reason I just said "fruit" is that fruit produced under grace is the only valid fruit in God's eyes. All our works done "on our own steam" will count as nothing.
Again, you are stating that you are sure what God thinks. Is it not possible that at some time and some way, God can and will, make exceptions? You are saying that everyone must believe the same way that some Christians believe.
There are many that would disagree with you on that.
Good points cg. If you're going to talk the talk, you must be willing to walk the walk. Salvation through faith in Christ Jesus is the gift, available to all who will accept. That's the talk (Romans 10:8-10). Producing good fruit is evidence of your talk. That's the walk (John 15:8).
Again, you are stating that you are sure what God thinks. Is it not possible that at some time and some way, God can and will, make exceptions? You are saying that everyone must believe the same way that some Christians believe.
There are many that would disagree with you on that.
If God could have made exceptions, He wouldn't have sent His Son. I am not stating what God thinks... I am stating what the Bible clearly says. God has no exceptions for sin, and even though many people do not believe this, it does not change the truth and the clarity of the word of God.
What you are saying is that Christ's sacrifice was needless. I don't have words to tell you how this makes me feel...
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
All our works done "on our own steam" will count as nothing.
So if 10 people read the Bible yet each one interprets the Bible differently, are they then working under their 'own steam'? Come to think of it, I believe that people can only interpret the Bible under their 'own steam'.
We hear about God’s great love… how He wants each one to be saved. Are we saved by His love? No…. No matter how much He loves us, His great love cannot save us! It’s impossible. God is so holy, so righteous, that He cannot accept sin.
Hi, thanks for sharing. I don't believe that God accepts sin but I do believe that He is able to convict all of their sin and that He will convince all of their need for Him. I believe that believers have been given the gift of faith and that this does not originate within ourselves. As a result, we are able to produce the fruits of this grace. We experience many blessings but I believe that we are blessed to be a blessing. I believe that we are the firstfruits in the whole harvest of mankind. All of mankind belongs to Christ, not to sin, or to the adversary, or to the human will. And all will be subjected to Him according to the scriptures. I believe that the lost are held captive, are blinded, are enslaved and that it is only God's power that is able to set them free from this. All are not set free at the same time though, but eventually all of creation will be delivered according to Romans 8. The love of God reveals that it is His good pleasure to reconcile all to Himself (Colossians 1) and that He is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 12-06-2007 at 02:35 PM..
The problem with that is that logic gets in the way.
This is not logic, this is art.
Then again compared to art, logic and religion are both static since they both do not like improvisation, while art is all about improvisation. Improvisation and inspiration often are the same.
[quote=Padgett2;2183087]..."We hear about God’s great love… how He wants each one to be saved. Are we saved by His love? No…. No matter how much He loves us, His great love cannot save us! It’s impossible. God is so holy, so righteous, that He cannot accept sin...."
When someone makes a statement such as this, "His great love cannont save us. It's Impossible." I think it's laying down rules and regulations for God. He can do whatever he wants to. If He wants to save anyone, He can. We can't put Him in a box and say for sure what He will and will not do.
"He cannot accept sin." Really??? no matter what the sin is?
Maybe one day when I get very, very wise, I will also be able to say what God will do. However, for now, I will just say that I don't really know.[/quote
NO ONE KNOWS THE MIND OF GOD, ALTHOUGH YOU HEAR PEOPLE SAYING "WHAT WOULD JESUS DO?"THE THEIVES ON THE CROSS WERE SAVED AT THE VERY END OF THEIR LIVES.WHY? REPENTENCE IS ONE REASON.OTHER REASONS ,WE MAY NOT KNOW. HE IS IN COMPLETE CONTROL AND HE DECIDES WHOM HE WILL HAVE MERCY ON. HE IS THE POTTER AND WE ARE CLAY. HE IS OUR FATHER ,WHO SENT HIS OWN SON TO THE CROSS BECAUSE OF SIN...
HE IS IN COMPLETE CONTROL AND HE DECIDES WHOM HE WILL HAVE MERCY ON. HE IS THE POTTER AND WE ARE CLAY. HE IS OUR FATHER ,WHO SENT HIS OWN SON TO THE CROSS BECAUSE OF SIN...
The more I hear this, the more I'm inclined to believe that Christians view God as their absolute master and humanity as slaves, where Christians are the uncle Toms*.
I mean to whom can slaves complain when they are being abused by their master? They simply can't so instead of losing all hope in life they rationalise the abuse with the thought that their abuse is justified; that their master can only be righteous. It seems obvious to me that this Christian 'slave' mentality makes it easier for people to fall victim to the Stockholm syndrome**.
Quote:
* Uncle Tom is a pejorative for an African American who is perceived by others as behaving in a subservient manner to White American authority figures, or as seeking ingratiation with them by way of unnecessary accommodation
Source: Uncle Tom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quote:
** Loyalty to a more powerful abuser — in spite of the danger that this loyalty puts the victim in — is common among victims of domestic abuse, battered partners and child abuse (dependent children). In many instances the victims choose to remain loyal to their abuser, and choose not to leave him or her, even when they are offered a safe placement in foster homes or safe houses.
A variant of Stockholm Syndrome includes cases of abusive parents and abusive siblings in which the victim, even after entering adulthood still justifies the family abuse.
HE IS IN COMPLETE CONTROL AND HE DECIDES WHOM HE WILL HAVE MERCY ON. HE IS THE POTTER AND WE ARE CLAY. HE IS OUR FATHER ,WHO SENT HIS OWN SON TO THE CROSS BECAUSE OF SIN...
I agree with Jania Mania. God is described as the Potter and we as clay in the Christian scriptures. As sovereign God and our Creator, He has every right to mold and shape us into whatever He wills. We really don't have any rights over ourselves due to the fact that He created us and He owns us. None of us from the beginning of Adam came to this earth of our own doing of of our own free will. The wonderful thing is our Creator, who is not a human being, is described as love, not hate. Love is good and so this tells me that everything God, the Potter does stems from love. An abuser is not motivated by agape love. There is a huge difference. God bless.
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Come to think of it, I believe that people can only interpret the Bible under their 'own steam'.
This is not logic, this is art.
Improvisation and inspiration often are the same.
Does The Potter Have A Right?
It seems obvious to me that this Christian 'slave' mentality makes it easier for people to fall victim to the Stockholm syndrome**.
