A Question That Burns in My Soul (crucified, Buddhism, Book of Mormon)
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What I am trying to convey to many here is that you aren't aware that 95% of what you believe has been programmed into you by what you've been hearing on TBN, GodTV, DayStar, and hundreds of ministers over the course of your lifetime since you were in diapers. It's how the Powers-That-Be have programmed most Christians to believe the exact same dogmas they want them to believe--by not allowing them to think and to reason for themselves.
Let's take an example:
The Mormon missionaries use a similar technique. After the missionaries make their sales pitch out of a propped-up manual specially prepared for the missionaries to present the story of Joseph Smith, the golden plates, and the rest of it in the most effective way according to polling results, they then ask the people to get on their knees and pray thus:
Quote:
If you read the Book of Mormon and sincerely pray about it in Jesus' name, then God will hear your prayer, answer you, and give you a testimony that the Book of Mormon is true.
So people do as they're instructed, pray with the missionaries and voila, they have this mystical, revelatory experience that everything the missionaries have said is the truth.
But we know it isn't the truth, don't we. It's a deception that will send these people straight to hell when they die, or so we Christians are told. So my question to the good people on this board, who sincerely believe John 14:13, is "Why didn't the Holy Spirit, who is the source of all truth, reveal to these people, 'Don't believe this lie. It is NOT the truth. Mormonism is a cult religion. The only truth is what Fundamentalist Christianity teaches.' Why didn't the Holy Spirit step in and prevent these honest, truth-seeking poor souls from making the biggest mistake of their lives by accepting Mormonism and thus condemning themselves to eternal torment?"
The answer I usually get is a dodge, "Well, you really aren't interested in knowing the truth, Thrillobyte, you just want to stir up trouble."
No kidding. That's the answer I usually get and I'm smart enough now to recognize a dodge. The truth is that the traditional Christians I ask this question to really don't know why the Holy Spirit doesn't step in to rescue them from the heresy of Mormonism and eternal damnation, again assuming Mormonism IS a heresy worthy of damnation.
Supposedly, if you ask God for anything in Jesus' Name He will give it to you, but these people, who are asking in Jesus' name for the truth of whether Mormonism is the one true religion get the "All's clear" signal that it's okay to join Mormonism, and another 10,000 or so souls are marked for eternal torment. And not just Mormonism, but Baha'i, Krishna, Buddhism--pretty much any religion they are gravitating toward.
Why doesn't the Holy Spirit rescue these people per Jesus' promise?
Quite a few, I'm certain, cupper, because I've asked the question before--not-here--and have never gotten a straight response, only convolutions, as you say, and doublespeak. I don't say "Christians don't have an answer" because maybe they do but are not willing to share it, but I say "I believe there isn't a good answer to the question" because if the principle worked and Christianity was the one true religion (maybe it is, I don't know) then the promise Jesus made in John would be working, but I don't see it working, at least in the scenario I outlined.
What I am trying to convey to many here is that you aren't aware that 95% of what you believe has been programmed into you by what you've been hearing on TBN, GodTV, DayStar, and hundreds of ministers over the course of your lifetime since you were in diapers. It's how the Powers-That-Be have programmed most Christians to believe the exact same dogmas they want them to believe--by not allowing them to think and to reason for themselves.
Let's take an example:
The Mormon missionaries use a similar technique. After the missionaries make their sales pitch out of a propped-up manual specially prepared for the missionaries to present the story of Joseph Smith, the golden plates, and the rest of it in the most effective way according to polling results, they then ask the people to get on their knees and pray thus:
So people do as they're instructed, pray with the missionaries and voila, they have this mystical, revelatory experience that everything the missionaries have said is the truth.
But we know it isn't the truth, don't we. It's a deception that will send these people straight to hell when they die, or so we Christians are told. So my question to the good people on this board, who sincerely believe John 14:13, is "Why didn't the Holy Spirit, who is the source of all truth, reveal to these people, 'Don't believe this lie. It is NOT the truth. Mormonism is a cult religion. The only truth is what Fundamentalist Christianity teaches.' Why didn't the Holy Spirit step in and prevent these honest, truth-seeking poor souls from making the biggest mistake of their lives by accepting Mormonism and thus condemning themselves to eternal torment?"
The answer I usually get is a dodge, "Well, you really aren't interested in knowing the truth, Thrillobyte, you just want to stir up trouble."
No kidding. That's the answer I usually get and I'm smart enough now to recognize a dodge. The truth is that the traditional Christians I ask this question to really don't know why the Holy Spirit doesn't step in to rescue them from the heresy of Mormonism and eternal damnation, again assuming Mormonism IS a heresy worthy of damnation.
Supposedly, if you ask God for anything in Jesus' Name He will give it to you, but these people, who are asking in Jesus' name for the truth of whether Mormonism is the one true religion get the "All's clear" signal that it's okay to join Mormonism, and another 10,000 or so souls are marked for eternal torment. And not just Mormonism, but Baha'i, Krishna, Buddhism--pretty much any religion they are gravitating toward.
Why doesn't the Holy Spirit rescue these people per Jesus' promise?
You kind of rambled on there for awhile...I'm trying to figure out what your actual question is.
thrillobyte, read the whole chapter, or even better, read the entire New Testament
from start to finish. And remember, the most important rewards Christ can give us
are not in this world, but in the next. To only be rewarded in this world, as we live
and die in it, is the banquet of Satan.
Concerning Mormonism, it's heresy, but I don't think it impedes the Holy Ghost
to the degree that damnation would result.
What I am trying to convey to many here is that you aren't aware that 95% of what you believe has been programmed into you by what you've been hearing on TBN, GodTV, DayStar, and hundreds of ministers over the course of your lifetime since you were in diapers. It's how the Powers-That-Be have programmed most Christians to believe the exact same dogmas they want them to believe--by not allowing them to think and to reason for themselves.
Let's take an example:
The Mormon missionaries use a similar technique. After the missionaries make their sales pitch out of a propped-up manual specially prepared for the missionaries to present the story of Joseph Smith, the golden plates, and the rest of it in the most effective way according to polling results, they then ask the people to get on their knees and pray thus:
So people do as they're instructed, pray with the missionaries and voila, they have this mystical, revelatory experience that everything the missionaries have said is the truth.
But we know it isn't the truth, don't we. It's a deception that will send these people straight to hell when they die, or so we Christians are told. So my question to the good people on this board, who sincerely believe John 14:13, is "Why didn't the Holy Spirit, who is the source of all truth, reveal to these people, 'Don't believe this lie. It is NOT the truth. Mormonism is a cult religion. The only truth is what Fundamentalist Christianity teaches.' Why didn't the Holy Spirit step in and prevent these honest, truth-seeking poor souls from making the biggest mistake of their lives by accepting Mormonism and thus condemning themselves to eternal torment?"
The answer I usually get is a dodge, "Well, you really aren't interested in knowing the truth, Thrillobyte, you just want to stir up trouble."
No kidding. That's the answer I usually get and I'm smart enough now to recognize a dodge. The truth is that the traditional Christians I ask this question to really don't know why the Holy Spirit doesn't step in to rescue them from the heresy of Mormonism and eternal damnation, again assuming Mormonism IS a heresy worthy of damnation.
Supposedly, if you ask God for anything in Jesus' Name He will give it to you, but these people, who are asking in Jesus' name for the truth of whether Mormonism is the one true religion get the "All's clear" signal that it's okay to join Mormonism, and another 10,000 or so souls are marked for eternal torment. And not just Mormonism, but Baha'i, Krishna, Buddhism--pretty much any religion they are gravitating toward.
Why doesn't the Holy Spirit rescue these people per Jesus' promise?
Is this the passage you're referring to?
Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
If so it's plan to see there's a few 'qualifiers' here. First: [1] If you [2]abide in me, and my words abide in you:
[1] If followed by the Subjective Mood expresses a hypothetical yet possible condition depending on circumstances the future will show.
[2]"abide" is the 'present participial form' of μὲνω, which expresses a 'continuous condition.'
Here's another similar verse with a qualifier: Jhn. 8:
31 ¶ Then said Jesus to those Jews which [1]believed on him, *If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And [then] ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
[1] believe means to: take [Christ] as model, follow, cling to, depend on, rely upon, yield to[Him].
Here's the opposite: Jhn. 5:
[i] 38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
41 I receive not honour from men.
42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?[/]
Another qualifier:
Ac 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
And along with the indwelling Spirit one gets discernment, and the ability to hear "His small still Voice."
So, there's your answer. Continue to abide in Him, keep His word in your 'heart,' follow Christ alone, depend on Him, and persuade God you're worthy of the Holy Spirit and you won't be fooled, mislead and or fall away from the narrow path.
You kind of rambled on there for awhile...I'm trying to figure out what your actual question is.
What is it that you'd like us to answer?
I think what he is trying to say is, we have an issue that is deep seated by being continually under the influence of others on what they think and assume is truth, much of it brought about by a foundation of a poor concept of God , and the effect of that is not being open to anything outside of what we believe is truth and truth about God.
What I am trying to convey to many here is that you aren't aware that 95% of what you believe has been programmed into you by what you've been hearing on TBN, GodTV, DayStar, and hundreds of ministers over the course of your lifetime since you were in diapers. It's how the Powers-That-Be have programmed most Christians to believe the exact same dogmas they want them to believe--by not allowing them to think and to reason for themselves.
Somehow you escaped. Congrats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte
Let's take an example:
The Mormon missionaries use a similar technique. After the missionaries make their sales pitch out of a propped-up manual specially prepared for the missionaries to present the story of Joseph Smith, the golden plates, and the rest of it in the most effective way according to polling results, they then ask the people to get on their knees and pray thus:
So people do as they're instructed, pray with the missionaries and voila, they have this mystical, revelatory experience that everything the missionaries have said is the truth.
But we know it isn't the truth, don't we. It's a deception that will send these people straight to hell when they die, or so we Christians are told. So my question to the good people on this board, who sincerely believe John 14:13, is "Why didn't the Holy Spirit, who is the source of all truth, reveal to these people, 'Don't believe this lie. It is NOT the truth. Mormonism is a cult religion. The only truth is what Fundamentalist Christianity teaches.' Why didn't the Holy Spirit step in and prevent these honest, truth-seeking poor souls from making the biggest mistake of their lives by accepting Mormonism and thus condemning themselves to eternal torment?"
The answer I usually get is a dodge, "Well, you really aren't interested in knowing the truth, Thrillobyte, you just want to stir up trouble."
No kidding. That's the answer I usually get and I'm smart enough now to recognize a dodge. The truth is that the traditional Christians I ask this question to really don't know why the Holy Spirit doesn't step in to rescue them from the heresy of Mormonism and eternal damnation, again assuming Mormonism IS a heresy worthy of damnation.
Supposedly, if you ask God for anything in Jesus' Name He will give it to you, but these people, who are asking in Jesus' name for the truth of whether Mormonism is the one true religion get the "All's clear" signal that it's okay to join Mormonism, and another 10,000 or so souls are marked for eternal torment. And not just Mormonism, but Baha'i, Krishna, Buddhism--pretty much any religion they are gravitating toward.
Why doesn't the Holy Spirit rescue these people per Jesus' promise?
What I am trying to convey to many here is that you aren't aware that 95% of what you believe has been programmed into you by what you've been hearing on TBN, GodTV, DayStar, and hundreds of ministers over the course of your lifetime since you were in diapers. It's how the Powers-That-Be have programmed most Christians to believe the exact same dogmas they want them to believe--by not allowing them to think and to reason for themselves.
Let's take an example:
The Mormon missionaries use a similar technique. After the missionaries make their sales pitch out of a propped-up manual specially prepared for the missionaries to present the story of Joseph Smith, the golden plates, and the rest of it in the most effective way according to polling results, they then ask the people to get on their knees and pray thus:
So people do as they're instructed, pray with the missionaries and voila, they have this mystical, revelatory experience that everything the missionaries have said is the truth.
But we know it isn't the truth, don't we. It's a deception that will send these people straight to hell when they die, or so we Christians are told. So my question to the good people on this board, who sincerely believe John 14:13, is "Why didn't the Holy Spirit, who is the source of all truth, reveal to these people, 'Don't believe this lie. It is NOT the truth. Mormonism is a cult religion. The only truth is what Fundamentalist Christianity teaches.' Why didn't the Holy Spirit step in and prevent these honest, truth-seeking poor souls from making the biggest mistake of their lives by accepting Mormonism and thus condemning themselves to eternal torment?"
The answer I usually get is a dodge, "Well, you really aren't interested in knowing the truth, Thrillobyte, you just want to stir up trouble."
No kidding. That's the answer I usually get and I'm smart enough now to recognize a dodge. The truth is that the traditional Christians I ask this question to really don't know why the Holy Spirit doesn't step in to rescue them from the heresy of Mormonism and eternal damnation, again assuming Mormonism IS a heresy worthy of damnation.
Supposedly, if you ask God for anything in Jesus' Name He will give it to you, but these people, who are asking in Jesus' name for the truth of whether Mormonism is the one true religion get the "All's clear" signal that it's okay to join Mormonism, and another 10,000 or so souls are marked for eternal torment. And not just Mormonism, but Baha'i, Krishna, Buddhism--pretty much any religion they are gravitating toward.
Why doesn't the Holy Spirit rescue these people per Jesus' promise?
Not going to argue with you - you are free to believe or not believe whatever you wish to - but I do want to let you know you have misunderstood much when it comes to Jesus and what he taught. But this does tend to happen when people insist on reading the Bible literally.
To ask for something in the name of Jesus simply means that the person asking is already of like mind (or in agreement) with what God wants. It does not mean Jesus will conform his will to our requests, but just the opposite.
See, Christians understand that God knows what is truly best for us so we seek through prayer to align our desires with his.
And we can trust God to answer in the best possible way, at the best possible time. So whatever we do (prayer included), we are to do it for the glory of God (1 Corinthians 10:31).
When we do that, we can be confident that we are praying in Jesus’ name.
Hope this helps you see things a little more clearly, or at least from a different angle
You kind of rambled on there for awhile...I'm trying to figure out what your actual question is.
What is it that you'd like us to answer?
I did ramble, trying to get my thoughts together.
What I'm trying to ask is: for people, who are sincerely seeking some sort of direction spiritually for their lives, why doesn't the Holy Spirit warn them when they are about to fall into serious heresy following a philosophical system other than the true one that would be approved by the Holy Spirit.
Perhaps John is inappropriate here because, as someone pointed out, you must already be abiding in Jesus in order for the principle of "ask and it shall be granted to you" to work. I know that there are millions of people truly seeking "the Way" in their heart who accidentally stumble into all sorts of cults unknowingly because of their naivety. What actually is the Holy Spirit's job in leading these people away from making a mistake that has eternal consequences?
Re the Mormon example: I had this exact same thing happen to me and so am well aware of how the stereotypical missionary boys you've seen riding around on bicycles in two's present their message. It's a well-honed, well-rehearsed presentation designed to catch the maximum number of new converts and it succeeds very well, judging by how large the Mormon church has grown. But when they prayed that famous prayer wasn't the Holy Spirit supposed to be standing guard to protect these people when they fell prey? Or is this not part of the Holy Spirit's duties?
Confused, that's all.
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