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=LailaWithTheBaloon;34257161]What are losers and binders of sin? They are supposed to belong to the Church in the second century. Thanks
The question you ask is from Matthew 16:18-19, and at that time and place it was NOT about sins; BUT rather unlimited power of Governance [key's to the Kingdom teaching] Mt. 16:15-19
Cities at that time; Jerusalem included WERE "walled in" and Did have gates and locks. It was common for the King to appoint a man to run the city on his belhalf who answered ONLY to the king. This man could and did make, void and enforce laws for the city that were inforcable even in Jewish Law.
Here are the Sin passages that answer your question:
1John.1 Verses 8 to 10 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
1John.5 Verses 16 to 17 "If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.
John.20 Verses 20 to 23" When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained"
This references Catholic Sacramental Confession WHICH IS THE NORM CHRIST ESTABLISED FOR FORGIVENESS OF SINS. The multiple man-made innovations are just that, and one risk their souls in believing them. This is the ONLY SURE way one knows [not simply hopes] that their sins HAVE been forgiven.
Now before you "go-off" of me READ Mt. 10:1-8; John 17:18 and the above John 20:21 where Christ clealy, and precisely GIVES HIS OWN GODLY POWERS TO HIS APOSTLES AND THROUGH THEM, TO TODAYS CATHOLIC CHURCH. And Yes God cna and God did freely choose to do this.
Further evidence is that Yaheh also used priest in a similar function in the OT:
Lev.5: 13 “Thus the priest shall make atonement for him for the sin which he has committed in any one of these things, and he shall be forgiven. And the remainder shall be for the priest, as in the cereal offering." … Lev.6:7 “and the priest shall make atonement for him before the LORD, and he shall be forgiven for any of the things which one may do and thereby become guilty."
Lev.4: 20,26, 31 “Thus shall he do with the bull; as he did with the bull of the sin offering, so shall he do with this; and the priest shall make atonement for them, and they shall be forgiven. …] And all its fat he shall burn on the altar, like the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings; so the priest shall make atonement for him for his sin, and he shall be forgiven. …And all its fat he shall remove, as the fat is removed from the peace offerings, and the priest shall burn it upon the altar for a pleasing odor to the LORD; and the priest shall make atonement for him, and he shall be forgiven."
The interpretation I got from Jesus Spirit as this was the authority of the believer ............... As Jesus will build His church which the temple of the Holy Spirit on the individual Christian , so I the believers binds up the Christ with sin then Christ will be stalled , where as if the believer binds up the demons or devil then they will be bound up through Jesus Spirit and become a non threat for believers , ..Then he loose on earth will be loose in heaven , is also the fallen angels as then must be loosed in Jesus name to remove curses before they are bound up and cast down to the pit ............... So hell will not stand for the believers who uses the gift of the authority of the believer In Christ .............. See this the redemption of Lord Jesus Christ to rip out the devil in believers through the power of Christ with working faith .................. Then some minister can you the scripture as their authority for the Whole Church denominational , as Apostle Peter had special meaning for them , and it can be interpretation for their position in Christ , and that is alright as the Word of God can mean different things for different parts of the body of Christ
=LailaWithTheBaloon;34257161]What are losers and binders of sin? They are supposed to belong to the Church in the second century. Thanks
Allw me my friend, to assit you.
You're quoting here verse 19 of Matthew 16: 15-19 and in this passage the reference in NOT to sins; but were at that time terms of Jewish Law for "Unlimited Powers of Governance" and the right to make and cancel LAWS.
Walled in cites as Jewrsalem was then DID hace gates, Doors aith Locks and Keys.
The Kings [or in this case the Govenor for Rome {Pilot}], choose a Prime Minister, who was given the Keys and UNLIMITED powers of authority, answerable ONLY to the King. and made all day to day decission; allowing the King to do his own thing. This in=s the precise role Christ invesioned for Peter, when He founded a New Faith [Singular] and even a new structure ["Church"]. Pagans had temples, the Jews the Synogoues and Catholic/ Chrsitian snow had the Church [ALSO singular[.
FYI: Today's RCC was the ONLY form of Christianity anywhere in the world for about the first THOUSAND YEARS.
But getting back to sin and sin Forgiveness: Christ ONLY Commanded and accepts One way: HIS
1John.1 Verses 8 to 10 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
1John.5 Verses 16 to 17 "If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.
AND FOLLOWING OT PRACTICE [LEV. CHAPTERS 4,5,6] OF USING PRIEST; CHRIST PERFECTED THE PRACTICE
John.20 Verses 20 to 23" When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained"
So my dear friend, DON'T be lulled into accepting some recent man-made innovations, thinikg they sound good, so they will work. THEY DON'T!
=hljc;34338569]The interpretation I got from Jesus Spirit as this was the authority of the believer ............... As Jesus will build His church which the temple of the Holy Spirit on the individual Christian , so I the believers binds up the Christ with sin then Christ will be stalled , where as if the believer binds up the demons or devil then they will be bound up through Jesus Spirit and become a non threat for believers , ..Then he loose on earth will be loose in heaven , is also the fallen angels as then must be loosed in Jesus name to remove curses before they are bound up and cast down to the pit ............... So hell will not stand for the believers who uses the gift of the authority of the believer In Christ .............. See this the redemption of Lord Jesus Christ to rip out the devil in believers through the power of Christ with working faith .................. Then some minister can you the scripture as their authority for the Whole Church denominational , as Apostle Peter had special meaning for them , and it can be interpretation for their position in Christ , and that is alright as the Word of God can mean different things for different parts of the body of Christ
What are losers and binders of sin? They are supposed to belong to the Church in the second century. Thanks
If what you are referring to is binding and LOOSING, I did an in-depth study and presentation on it some time ago on this forum. Type in binding and loosing in the search feature under FORUMS at the top of the page and it will come up. It's very informative and is Biblical truth. Blessings.
The auricular confession to a priest was not the norm in the Catholic church
until the 7th century. Augustine said that prayer and mass were sufficient for
most sins. In some cases of grave sin, especially public sins, public penance
was performed, and it was often severe. Dealing with many misunderstandings
and problems, early bishops of the Church would reconcile people to the flock
via an early form of correctiong wrongs, and coming to God with the true Church's
blessing. Still, my understanding is that it is the Holy Spirit which binds and looses
sin, it is the Holy Spirit which leads mens' hearts to repentance.
I am basically Catholic, although I struggle with sacramental confession.
I do believe it is valid, 100% so, but also believe that private repentance
is 100% valid. Consider what Saint Peter said to Simon Magus in Acts
8:9-24. Remember, this is the first Pope saying this. Here are the relevant passages:
18 When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money 19 and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”
20 Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21 You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. 23 For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.”
24 Then Simon answered, “Pray to the Lord for me so that nothing you have said may happen to me.”
The auricular confession to a priest was not the norm in the Catholic church
until the 7th century. Augustine said that prayer and mass were sufficient for
most sins. In some cases of grave sin, especially public sins, public penance
was performed, and it was often severe. Dealing with many misunderstandings
and problems, early bishops of the Church would reconcile people to the flock
via an early form of correctiong wrongs, and coming to God with the true Church's
blessing. Still, my understanding is that it is the Holy Spirit which binds and looses
sin, it is the Holy Spirit which leads mens' hearts to repentance.
I am basically Catholic, although I struggle with sacramental confession.
I do believe it is valid, 100% so, but also believe that private repentance
is 100% valid. Consider what Saint Peter said to Simon Magus in Acts
8:9-24. Remember, this is the first Pope saying this. Here are the relevant passages:
18 When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money 19 and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”
20 Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21 You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. 23 For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.”
24 Then Simon answered, “Pray to the Lord for me so that nothing you have said may happen to me.”
Auricular confession had it's origins in the NT.
Confession and Forgiveness of Sin via the Priesthood Proved from Scripture
Some people object to the Sacrament of Reconciliation (commonly called “Confession”) on the basis that they only need to confess their sins directly to God rather than to a priest. Is this perspective correct? Let’s see what the Bible has to say.
Leviticus 5:5-6
5 " 'When anyone is guilty in any of these ways, he must confess in what way he has sinned 6 and, as a penalty for the sin he has committed, he must bring to the LORD a female lamb or goat from the flock as a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for him for his sin.
Notice that the Word of God says, “the priest shall make atonement.” Clearly in the Old Testament, the priesthood existed to offer sacrifices and make atonement for the sins committed by the people. Does this idea continue in the New Testament?
Hebrews 10:1
1 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves.
Here the author of Hebrews instructs us that the Old Testament prefigures and foreshadows New Testament truths; the Old is revealed more fully in the New. This seems to suggest that the role of the priest (ie, making atonement) as described in Leviticus should reveal something to us about the New Testament priesthood. So, what does the New Testament teach us about confession of sin?
1 John 1:9
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
We should confess our sins, and God will forgive us, but do we confess our sins to God alone? No!
James 5:13-16
13 Is any one of you in trouble? He should pray. Is anyone happy? Let him sing songs of praise. 14 Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed.
Here the word of God tells us to call the elders (the Greek word is presbuteroi, or “presbyter”, from which the English word “priest” is derived). So, in this context, James is telling us to send for the priests who will pray over someone who is sick, and if he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Recalling the passage from Leviticus above, we see there is a strong parallel between the priests of the Old Testament who made atonement for sin and the presbyters or priests of the New Testament to whom we confess sins for forgiveness. But this sounds like blasphemy! Can men really forgive sins? This same question is asked in the New Testament.
Mark 2:5-7
5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven." 6Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7"Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"
Who can forgive sins but God alone? This question is often asked by those who seek to deny the sacrament of confession. However, note that this question is asked by the scribes who did not accept Jesus. Those who quote this passage find themselves on the side of those who rejected the Messiah. There’s more to the story, however; let’s consider the same incident from the book of Matthew.
Matthew 9:1-7
1 Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. 2Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven." 3 At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, "This fellow is blaspheming!" 4 Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, "Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts? 5Which is easier: to say, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up and walk'? 6But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins...." Then he said to the paralytic, "Get up, take your mat and go home." 7And the man got up and went home. 8When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to men.
The Bible teaches that God had given the authority to forgive sins “to men”. Note that this is not “to a man” but “to men” – plural. So, it is not only Jesus who has authority to forgive sins – “men” have this authority, also. This sounds like a “hard teaching”…is there confirmation of this in the Bible?
John 20:21-23
21 Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."
How did God send Jesus into the world? With the authority to forgive sins as we saw in Matthew 9:6. How does Jesus send the Apostles? In the same way that the Father had sent Him…with the authority to forgive sins as we have just seen in John 20:23. How could the Apostles obey the commandment of Jesus to forgive sins unless they heard these sins confessed? Thus, scripture records that people did confess their sins aloud.
Acts 19:18 (New International Version)
18Many of those who believed now came and openly confessed their evil deeds.
Finally, we find that the Apostle Paul himself forgave the sins of others acting in persona Christi or “in the person of Christ” – just as the Catholic Church teaches concerning the sacrament of reconciliation.
2 Corinthians 2:10
10To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ; (KJV)
And to whom you have pardoned any thing, I also. For, what I have pardoned, if I have pardoned any thing, for your sakes have I done it in the person of Christ. (Douay Rheims)
Can we go directly to God for the forgiveness of our sins? Of course, but the scriptures just presented suggest that the normative means of forgiveness is by confession to a priest, and while it is true that only God can forgive sins, the Bible teaches that He has chosen to do so through the ordained priesthood and the Sacrament of Reconciliation that He Himself instituted.
The auricular confession to a priest was not the norm in the Catholic church
until the 7th century.
All these guys lived way before the 7th century.
Origen
“[The repentant sinner] does not shrink from declaring his sin to a priest of the Lord." (Homilies on Leviticus, [AD 244]).
Cyprian of Carthage
"Finally, of how much greater faith and more salutary fear are they who…confess to the priests of God in a straightforward manner and in sorrow, making an open declaration of conscience" (The Lapsed, [AD 251]).
Firmilian
"But what is his error and how great his blindness....who does not remain on the foundation of the one true Church which was founded upon the rock by Christ, can be learned from this, which Christ said to Peter alone, 'Whatever things you shall bind on earth shall also be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth, they shall also be loosed in heaven'; and by this, again in the Gospel, when Christ breathed upon the apostles alone, saying to them, 'Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive any man his sins they shall be forgiven, and if you retain any man's sins they shall be retained.' The power of forgiving sins was given to the apostles and the churches which these men, sent by Christ, established and to the bishops who succeeded them by being ordained in their place" (Epistle to Cyprian 75:16 [Inter A.D. 255-256]).
Aphraates
"If anyone uncovers his wound before you, give him the remedy of repentance. And he that is ashamed to make known his weakness, encourage him so that he will not hide it from you. And when he has revealed it to you, do not make it public" (Treatises 7:4, [ca. 300’s]).
Gregory I
"The disciples receive as their lot the preeminence of celestial judgment, so that, in God's stead, they retain sins for some and for some they forgive them [John 20:22-23]. . . . Certainly it is now the bishops who hold their place in the Church. They receive the authority of binding and loosing, who have as their lot a degree of governing. It is a magnificent honor, but that honor carries with it a heavy burden."(Homilies on the Gospels 2:26:4 [A.D. 590-591]).
Again, I'm not saying that Catholic priests as God works through them
cannot aid in forgiving sins. What I'm saying is that auricular confession
to a priest is not the only way God forgives sins. This is demonstrated
in the New Testament. By the way, the quotes concerning Leviticus
are meaningless to Christians. Also, the only confession to a priest
conveyed in the New Testament is when Judas Iscariot confesses
to the Pharisees of his regret for betraying Christ.
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