misconception about works (believe, scriptures, pray, Jesus Christ)
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James 1:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
These Two scriptures were used on another board to show that James and Paul did not agree with one another. Here was my reply, hope it may be helpful to others that see a contradiction between James and Paul.
Do these scriptures conflict with one another? Or are they speaking of two aspects of faith.
First it should be pointed out that Paul in Romans 4 is speaking of faith in the birth of Isaac (this is seen in verses 18-22) and James is speaking of the sacrifice of Isaac.
Two different aspects of faith.
Abraham did nothing but believe in Isaacs birth, but once Isaac/Christ is birthed in us that birth produces works of faith. It is these works of faith James is speaking of and this can be seen in verse 22 “Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?” /complete
If Abraham never offered up Isaac (which is works) then his faith would never have come to completion.
We can see these same works of faith also mentioned by both Jesus and Paul.
John 8:39
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
1 Corinthians 3:11-15
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.( Are they works of faith or works of the law)
14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works,(these would be works of the law) least any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (works of faith)
2 Thessalonians 1:11
11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
Hebrews 11:7
7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark (works) to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Now think on this; if Noah had not built the boat (which was a work of faith, the same works of faith James is speaking on) then he and his house would have drowned with the rest of mankind.
Adds another layer to “faith without works is dead” don’t it.
The scriptures under discussion.
James 2:17-26
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Romans 4:1-25
What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. 13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. 16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. 18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara’s womb: 20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
I notice you quote everyone and his brother, but you ignore the words of Jesus Himself as expressed in Matthew 25:36 ff, in which Jesus Himself expresses the necessity of works.
People like me are so frustrated with those who ignore the words of Jesus Himself. There are even those who claim they are saved, as it that means they are absolved from any other responsibility for their own indifference to their fellow humans in need.
We are always being tested, and works is the primary manner in which we can respond to those tests.
I notice you quote everyone and his brother, but you ignore the words of Jesus Himself as expressed in Matthew 25:36 ff, in which Jesus Himself expresses the necessity of works.
People like me are so frustrated with those who ignore the words of Jesus Himself. There are even those who claim they are saved, as it that means they are absolved from any other responsibility for their own indifference to their fellow humans in need.
We are always being tested, and works is the primary manner in which we can respond to those tests.
The excessive piety of and militance of Paul resonates more with Evangelicals.
IMO, the greatest misconception about 'works' or 'works-based theology', is the notion that one's "goodness" or "good works" somehow places God in their debt.
In truth, 'works' do have their place ... in providing evidence to the 'doer' that their proclaimed faith is real. God needs no such evidence, since he sees clearly and directly into the heart.
Works are a requirement to continue in salvation. Not our works of course (which Paul shows) but the works of Christ down through towards others. If we don't have these then we don't have Christ.
James 1:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
These Two scriptures were used on another board to show that James and Paul did not agree with one another. Here was my reply, hope it may be helpful to others that see a contradiction between James and Paul.
Do these scriptures conflict with one another? Or are they speaking of two aspects of faith.
First it should be pointed out that Paul in Romans 4 is speaking of faith in the birth of Isaac (this is seen in verses 18-22) and James is speaking of the sacrifice of Isaac.
Two different aspects of faith.
Abraham did nothing but believe in Isaacs birth, but once Isaac/Christ is birthed in us that birth produces works of faith. It is these works of faith James is speaking of and this can be seen in verse 22 “Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?” /complete
Can't help it. Abraham at 100 years of age and Sarah at 90 years of age did have works related to Isaac. They had to have sex. They had to do so more than once as Isaac was born 1 year after their being told she would become pregnant.
The works were not for self justification but were always based on faith in God. Works alone won't do it and faith alone won't as a real faith will have works. It is unavoidable.
Abraham was not justified by works alone.
If you look closer Paul was also speaking of works of the Law, which did not exist for Abraham in any event, but it was Abraham's faith that counted and that faith moved Abraham to .... obedience and the work was the result of his faith.
KJV Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Notice his seed, which took works as it were and only based on his faith in God's promise.
Works are a requirement to continue in salvation. Not our works of course (which Paul shows) but the works of Christ down through towards others. If we don't have these then we don't have Christ.
I notice you quote everyone and his brother, but you ignore the words of Jesus Himself as expressed in Matthew 25:36 ff, in which Jesus Himself expresses the necessity of works.
People like me are so frustrated with those who ignore the words of Jesus Himself. There are even those who claim they are saved, as it that means they are absolved from any other responsibility for their own indifference to their fellow humans in need.
We are always being tested, and works is the primary manner in which we can respond to those tests.
You obviously did not read it very carefully chuck, just a knee jurk reaction to the title. try reading it, because when you actually do you will see I do indeed qoute Jesus.
The excessive piety of and militance of Paul resonates more with Evangelicals.
The kind words of Jesus are often ignored.
I just love how people who did not read a post comment on it without knowing anything about it.
I DID NOT IGNORE JESUS WORDS, and if you had of read the post you would have seen it.
Talk about judgment without evidence.
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. Abraham at 100 years of age and Sarah at 90 years of age did have works related to Isaac. They had to have sex. They had to do so more than once as Isaac was born 1 year after their being told she would become pregnant. 
I just love how people who did not read a post comment on it without knowing anything about it.
