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First I should start off saying that I like my Pastor and he is a good man, however I often feel confused by many of the things he says and that quite frankly I am often at odds with some of his teachings. The core message of the church is one I agree with, saved by Grace, God loves all, the door is open to all. I'm fully in support of that, and I am completely comfortable with having gay people join our church and even serve in it, as long as they renounce their sin. We're all sinners in our own way, and none of us should judge another because they sin differently than we do.
What I do have an issue with however is a conversation that him and I had over gay marriage and homosexuality in general in the church. He stated that because Paul said "There is no male or female in Christ" and that homosexuality is okay because there's no such thing as same-sex attraction anymore since none of us are truly male or female in Christ. He also said that people are born gay and that it's not debatable, I pointed out that there is no such proof to support that claim and that there could be several environmental factors involved, but he snubbed his nose at it. I told him that I would welcome a homosexual to church as God loves them like he loves everyone else, but that I know what scripture says and I won't even begin to try and justify a sin. He then stated that there are things that the Bible says are wrong but we ignore completely, such as women not being able to speak in church or divorced people getting remarried. He then implied that we should do the same thing with homosexuality and gay marriage. The Pastor's daughter, who agrees with him, stated that people like her and her father are "forward" thinkers and we should accept it because it will be accepted by everyone sooner or later.
This church is rather small, and I doubt it will be around in the next 10 years. What they consider to be a "great success" in attendance is 18 people, which only happens for Potluck, on average we have about 12-13 members and they're all older. They do not have a church of their own, they rent one from a Methodist Church. They also do not meet on Sundays, they meet on Saturday evenings (it used to be Saturday morning but they thought they would attract more people this way). Moderator cut: Keep the politics OUT of this forum.
I've been attending another church on the side. It's a younger community and it just got started less than a year ago, and it already has 30-40 members. I like this new community better, as I felt like I was not getting spiritually satisfied at the previous Church above. I attend on occasion just to touch base with old friends but I do not consider it my "home" church. My question is what kind of Church is the one I was describing? It just confuses me because I can't wrap my head around it.
Last edited by mensaguy; 10-06-2014 at 09:39 AM..
Reason: Needless political posting.
If you're uncomfortable with an open-minded, non-judgmental pastor who believes as your Jesus instructed, by all means go elsewhere. It's a free country.
If you're uncomfortable with an open-minded, non-judgmental pastor who believes as your Jesus instructed, by all means go elsewhere. It's a free country.
What a generalizing statement.
I'm completely fine with an open-minded pastor, in fact I absolutely despise judgmental churches of all kinds. However there's being open-minded, and there's ignoring scripture and trying to twist the Bible to support agendas, and that's what I feel that he is doing.
Also Jesus never instructed to support those particular things. He simply commanded us to love each other but to still honor God and His Word, and God's Word does not allow gay marriage.
I'm completely fine with an open-minded pastor, in fact I absolutely despise judgmental churches of all kinds. However there's being open-minded, and there's ignoring scripture and trying to twist the Bible to support agendas, and that's what I feel that he is doing.
Also Jesus never instructed to support those particular things. He simply commanded us to love each other but to still honor God and His Word, and God's Word does not allow gay marriage.
God said nothing about gays.
The dudes who wrote what other dudes decided would become the bible did.
The problem, West, is that you think "sin" is something on a list. It is not. It is anything that violates concern for the well-being of everyone concerned in any situation (agape) whether positive action or failure to act (to him that knows to do good and does it not, to him that is sin).
What you need to do in the current situation is back up and ask if a committed relationship of the same sex is actually in any way harmful to anybody without regard to societal pressures past or present. You just might be able to do that.
First I should start off saying that I like my Pastor and he is a good man, however I often feel confused by many of the things he says and that quite frankly I am often at odds with some of his teachings. The core message of the church is one I agree with, saved by Grace, God loves all, the door is open to all. I'm fully in support of that, and I am completely comfortable with having gay people join our church and even serve in it, as long as they renounce their sin. We're all sinners in our own way, and none of us should judge another because they sin differently than we do.
What I do have an issue with however is a conversation that him and I had over gay marriage and homosexuality in general in the church. He stated that because Paul said "There is no male or female in Christ" and that homosexuality is okay because there's no such thing as same-sex attraction anymore since none of us are truly male or female in Christ. He also said that people are born gay and that it's not debatable, I pointed out that there is no such proof to support that claim and that there could be several environmental factors involved, but he snubbed his nose at it. I told him that I would welcome a homosexual to church as God loves them like he loves everyone else, but that I know what scripture says and I won't even begin to try and justify a sin. He then stated that there are things that the Bible says are wrong but we ignore completely, such as women not being able to speak in church or divorced people getting remarried. He then implied that we should do the same thing with homosexuality and gay marriage. The Pastor's daughter, who agrees with him, stated that people like her and her father are "forward" thinkers and we should accept it because it will be accepted by everyone sooner or later.
This church is rather small, and I doubt it will be around in the next 10 years. What they consider to be a "great success" in attendance is 18 people, which only happens for Potluck, on average we have about 12-13 members and they're all older. They do not have a church of their own, they rent one from a Methodist Church. They also do not meet on Sundays, they meet on Saturday evenings (it used to be Saturday morning but they thought they would attract more people this way). Moderator cut: Keep the politics OUT of this forum.
I've been attending another church on the side. It's a younger community and it just got started less than a year ago, and it already has 30-40 members. I like this new community better, as I felt like I was not getting spiritually satisfied at the previous Church above. I attend on occasion just to touch base with old friends but I do not consider it my "home" church. My question is what kind of Church is the one I was describing? It just confuses me because I can't wrap my head around it.
If your recap of this conversation is accurate, it is quite apparent that you are dealing with a VERY liberal pastor who has chosen to simply ignore any scripture that doesn't match his personal bias or opinion. You might steer him to CD-Christian forum, where a large group of folks rabidly oppose and make similar judgments about most Biblical teachings.
There is certainly room for different interpretations of Biblical precepts, but, simply ignoring or rejecting scripture, in favor of whatever social conventions are popular at the moment, leaves one (and their church) without a 'reliable truth standard.'
The problem, West, is that you think "sin" is something on a list. It is not. It is anything that violates concern for the well-being of everyone concerned in any situation (agape) whether positive action or failure to act (to him that knows to do good and does it not, to him that is sin).
What you need to do in the current situation is back up and ask if a committed relationship of the same sex is actually in any way harmful to anybody without regard to societal pressures past or present. You just might be able to do that.
I don't care if people are in a committed relationship with the same-sex, it's not my business and no, it doesn't effect me. I would welcome them to church just like everyone else. My issue however is that yes it IS a sin as it is mentioned in the Bible, just like adultery, theft, prostitution etc....are also all sins. I feel that my Pastor is trying to justify this sin by twisting scripture and saying that it's not a sin at all, which goes against both the Bible and Nature.
I'm completely fine with an open-minded pastor, in fact I absolutely despise judgmental churches of all kinds. However there's being open-minded, and there's ignoring scripture and trying to twist the Bible to support agendas, and that's what I feel that he is doing.
Also Jesus never instructed to support those particular things. He simply commanded us to love each other but to still honor God and His Word, and God's Word does not allow gay marriage.
It sounds like you feel gay people are of lesser value in this world and need your religion to back you up on that. Anti-gay churches are a dime a dozen, so go find another one.
First I should start off saying that I like my Pastor and he is a good man, however I often feel confused by many of the things he says and that quite frankly I am often at odds with some of his teachings. The core message of the church is one I agree with, saved by Grace, God loves all, the door is open to all. I'm fully in support of that, and I am completely comfortable with having gay people join our church and even serve in it, as long as they renounce their sin. We're all sinners in our own way, and none of us should judge another because they sin differently than we do.
What I do have an issue with however is a conversation that him and I had over gay marriage and homosexuality in general in the church. He stated that because Paul said "There is no male or female in Christ" and that homosexuality is okay because there's no such thing as same-sex attraction anymore since none of us are truly male or female in Christ. He also said that people are born gay and that it's not debatable, I pointed out that there is no such proof to support that claim and that there could be several environmental factors involved, but he snubbed his nose at it. I told him that I would welcome a homosexual to church as God loves them like he loves everyone else, but that I know what scripture says and I won't even begin to try and justify a sin. He then stated that there are things that the Bible says are wrong but we ignore completely, such as women not being able to speak in church or divorced people getting remarried. He then implied that we should do the same thing with homosexuality and gay marriage. The Pastor's daughter, who agrees with him, stated that people like her and her father are "forward" thinkers and we should accept it because it will be accepted by everyone sooner or later.
This church is rather small, and I doubt it will be around in the next 10 years. What they consider to be a "great success" in attendance is 18 people, which only happens for Potluck, on average we have about 12-13 members and they're all older. They do not have a church of their own, they rent one from a Methodist Church. They also do not meet on Sundays, they meet on Saturday evenings (it used to be Saturday morning but they thought they would attract more people this way). Moderator cut: Keep the politics OUT of this forum.
I've been attending another church on the side. It's a younger community and it just got started less than a year ago, and it already has 30-40 members. I like this new community better, as I felt like I was not getting spiritually satisfied at the previous Church above. I attend on occasion just to touch base with old friends but I do not consider it my "home" church. My question is what kind of Church is the one I was describing? It just confuses me because I can't wrap my head around it.
Homosexuality and homosexual marriage are not okay, and acceptance of homosexuality is a symptom of national decadence and degeneracy. No pastor should ever endorse it. The pastor to which you refer is twisting the meaning of Galatians 3:28. He is in error.
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