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FYI I am homosexual but I choose not to act out on it. It is not a sin to be homosexual but it is a sin to act out on it, just as much as it is sinful if I was hetrosexual and as a guy I lusted after a woman that is not my wife.
With the Holy Spirit guiding me I am able to not act out on my homosexual desires, and if it was not there I would certainly act out out on it as well as go into pornography.
Those that act on their lusts, in the end they have to answer to God someday just as me and everyone that has ever lived.
The atrocities of the Nazis started with the exact same thing that you are doing regarding homosexuals. They began dehumanizing the Jews, made them responsible for everything that went wrong in society--as you and tthttf have done on this thread. That's how it starts. And once they accomplished desensitizing the German people from seeing Jews as people--just people--they began removing this civil right and then that civil right--and eventually had them wearing stars on their clothes to make them appear "different."
All of this is the direction you and your church are headed.
As I've said before, your position is pretty weak if you have to force fit comparisons from ugly periods in history to prop it up. Besides, if I am to believe your propaganda then most of society is becoming more accepting of gays. You would need it to be going in the opposite direction to make such a comparison. Besides a few Westboro like extremists, I don't see any Christians out there preaching that gays are sub-human evil monsters. We believe in hating sin, not the person. I know you reject that stance but you have yet to give a single valid point why there can not be a distinction.
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Originally Posted by Wardendresden
You are the one trying to villanize a group of people-in the same way Nazi Germany did the Jews. You are not persecuted--you are the persecutor. Look at what ditchlights reported in post #1417. No longer attending any church because of the hardness of the hearts of fundamentalist parents. That's plain disgusting, and since you are spouting off the same stuff you bear the responsibility of driving people away from God. Or don't you believe homosexuals need God? And if they do, how will they learn about God without being welcomed in church.
Would you be ok with a male church member cheating on his wife ,and bringing his mistress to church services? A lot of churches would not welcome that either.
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Originally Posted by Wardendresden
Basically you are requiring works before faith. Stop sinning (unless it's one of the sins you condone in your church--which are legion apparently) by ending life as God made the homosexual to be. You are responsible for assisting in driving homosexuals to depression, despair, and less than safe sex practices. You are responsible for the deaths of some gay children that are driven to suicide by the stance you and your church take.
I should stop sinning by embracing the sin of others? Do you realize how warped that sounds?
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Originally Posted by Wardendresden
And if you don't like that--it is quite biblical. You want freedom to tell homosexuals that they are an abomination, so I take the freedom to tell you that you are doing the same thing just as Paul stated in Romans 2:1. I hope you absolutely despise what I am pointing out to you, because without learning and accepting yourself for the sinner that you are, there is no hope of salvation for you. And you should have every opportunity to find Jesus Christ as Savior just the same as any homosexual.
But it's perfectly fine for homosexuals to live in sin? By remaining silent which you seem to think is the moral thing to do, you are essentially endorsing this behavior that the Bible clearly states is wrong and unnatural.
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Originally Posted by Wardendresden
Are you religious. I do believe you are. Have you met the Son of God in a personal relationship---I don't see how, because there is no difference in what you are attempting to do, and what the Nazis managed to eventually accomplish using the same tactics.
I could say the same about you. You are trying to "dehumanize" Bible believing Christians by first claiming without a single bit of supporting evidence that we are not even Christian. Only God knows the condition of my heart, and I firmly believe on not judging anyone if you haven't walked in their shoes.
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Originally Posted by Wardendresden
Becoming a Christian isn't about believing every bit of garbage that flows from pulpits these days. It's about an introspective look into your own heart, your own motivations, and the resulting good or evil that comes from your words and actions. So far, the homosexuals who have posted don't appear to be hearing any Good News. Apparently you have none to share.
And what exactly is the good news that you present here? You can be happily gay and still be a Christian?
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Originally Posted by Wardendresden
Did you listen to the sermon by Danny Cortez? I think not. Did you bother to obtain and read either The Cross in the Closet or Stranger at the Gate? I think not. Because you allow your prejudice to keep anything from giving you a different perspective.
I won't waste my time with someone who doesn't believe in the Bible. But in fairness, I have listened to Matthew Vines's testimony and pro-gay arguments, and I have considered his arguments that traditional Christians have completely misinterpreted the Bible passages on homosexuality. It has raised the difficult question in my mind that would God disapprove of a gay couple if no physical homosexual sex ever occurred? I still lean towards it going against God's design, but I do acknowledge the reality that this is not a simple one sided issue. Since you like to post videos, let me counter with one of my own. Excellent debate between Vines and Dr. Michael Brown. Note they are able to completely disagree without turning the topic into a personal assault. You could learn a lesson from Matthew Vines.
Standing up against sin is in no way comparable to the atrocities committed by the Nazis. Just stop it. It is nothing but a desperate attempt to villianize us.
That pastor in Arizona is standing up to the evil sin of homosexuality and wants them exterminated. That's what taking the Bible literally does to people.
Did you ever answer my question about the solution for gays?
FYI I am homosexual but I choose not to act out on it. It is not a sin to be homosexual but it is a sin to act out on it, just as much as it is sinful if I was hetrosexual and as a guy I lusted after a woman that is not my wife.
With the Holy Spirit guiding me I am able to not act out on my homosexual desires, and if it was not there I would certainly act out out on it as well as go into pornography.
Those that act on their lusts, in the end they have to answer to God someday just as me and everyone that has ever lived.
So you believe God has blessed you with the gift of celibacy for the rest of your life?
That pastor in Arizona is standing up to the evil sin of homosexuality and wants them exterminated. That's what taking the Bible literally does to people.
And I have said that I find his comments to be both disgusting and ignorant. Jesus paid the death penalty for sin.
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Originally Posted by Fiyero
Did you ever answer my question about the solution for gays?
The solution is to first seek God with all your heart. Our time on this earth is very brief so greater is the pursuit of spiritual closeness to God than the need to fullfill temporary physical desires. We won't have spouses, partners, or physical sex in the afterlife.
I should stop sinning by embracing the sin of others?
You should stop sinning by dropping the stone from your hand and following the examples and commandment of Jesus Christ. Turn away from the hurtful, damaging attitude you have towards gays and turn towards Jesus.
You are serving the humans who preach the anti-gay agenda, not Christ.
As I've said before, your position is pretty weak if you have to force fit comparisons from ugly periods in history to prop it up. Besides, if I am to believe your propaganda then most of society is becoming more accepting of gays. You would need it to be going in the opposite direction to make such a comparison. Besides a few Westboro like extremists, I don't see any Christians out there preaching that gays are sub-human evil monsters. We believe in hating sin, not the person. I know you reject that stance but you have yet to give a single valid point why there can not be a distinction.
Would you be ok with a male church member cheating on his wife ,and bringing his mistress to church services? A lot of churches would not welcome that either.
I should stop sinning by embracing the sin of others? Do you realize how warped that sounds?
But it's perfectly fine for homosexuals to live in sin? By remaining silent which you seem to think is the moral thing to do, you are essentially endorsing this behavior that the Bible clearly states is wrong and unnatural.
I could say the same about you. You are trying to "dehumanize" Bible believing Christians by first claiming without a single bit of supporting evidence that we are not even Christian. Only God knows the condition of my heart, and I firmly believe on not judging anyone if you haven't walked in their shoes.
And what exactly is the good news that you present here? You can be happily gay and still be a Christian?
I won't waste my time with someone who doesn't believe in the Bible. But in fairness, I have listened to Matthew Vines's testimony and pro-gay arguments, and I have considered his arguments that traditional Christians have completely misinterpreted the Bible passages on homosexuality. It has raised the difficult question in my mind that would God disapprove of a gay couple if no physical homosexual sex ever occurred? I still lean towards it going against God's design, but I do acknowledge the reality that this is not a simple one sided issue. Since you like to post videos, let me counter with one of my own. Excellent debate between Vines and Dr. Michael Brown. Note they are able to completely disagree without turning the topic into a personal assault. You could learn a lesson from Matthew Vines.
But you are a hypocrite regarding your views of scripture. You hold to the OT law regarding homosexuality as sin without supporting the same view that they should be executed? That's hypocrisy.
As you compared Jesus not saying anything about homosexuality OR obesity, I agree with you. Since He mentioned neither--neither should we. But you DO want to talk about homosexuality of the OT while ignoring obesity (a sin against one's own body that Paul seemed to overlook). This is once again HYPOCRISY.
You either accept all of the LAW or none of the LAW. But you, personally, have deemed that those parts of the LAW you are okay with are okay because they applied only to Jews. Since the OT is written only to Jews and primarily about Jews your attempt to paint some OT sin as "Jewish" only while others are accepted by today is---HYPOCRISY.
We are either free from the LAW or not. Which is it? Other99 believes his nature, created by God, is sinful. This goes to the fundamentalist view of Augustine in the fourth century that man is inherently created sinful. Augustine got that view from a pagan gnostic group of which he was a part for ten years before becoming a Christian. Other99 needs to read Stranger at the Gate by Mel White, a homosexual evangelist who fought for 25 years to be something other than he was while writing books for Billy Graham, Pat Robertson, W.A. Criswell, and Jerry Falwell. He was married to an absolutely wonderful woman who stood by him for all those years even after he confessed to her his homosexual desires. They have two children. In order to escape what God created him to be he underwent psychotherapy, isolation therapy, electric shock treatments and many other kinds of dehumanizing treatments to "change" from who he is. It didn't work. Eventually they partook of the worst sin on the books--divorce--another sin the church "overlooks," despite the fact that the evil resulting in community existence from divorce is far greater than virtually any other sin.
Not every "evil" thing is evil, and not all "holy" things are holy. Would you call professing Christians carrying signs at Matthew Shepherd's funeral that said things like "God hates ****," and shouting to his parents that he is burning in hell--"holy?"
Were you protesting what they were doing then--or remaining comfortably silent?
With Jesus sin is always about how some people treat other people. It's about how some people feel privileged over others. It's about how some people see themselves as morally superior.
Remember the story of David and Bathsheba? David saw himself as a king and privileged. He took advantage of a woman who had no choice but to submit to the king. Then he had her husband "killed in battle." It was wrong. But the prophet Nathan came into David's chamber to report that a man with many sheep had taken the solitary lamb of another and killed it for a feast. David said, "Bring him here, I will make him pay for this." And Nathan said, "Thou art the man!" Only then did David understand that he was the one in power, he was the one in charge, and he had failed miserably, shamefully, and worse than anyone else.
I'm no Nathan, but I'm telling you "Thou are the man!" You and those with your belief system are the ones in power. You're the ones in charge. Yet you raise no voice against injustice that has occurred toward homosexuals. And no matter how "sinful" they may be in your eyes it's not going to be an excuse for God to forgive you for YOUR sinfulness in the way they are treated by society.
Confess your own sins and let others confess theirs. They don't need your help.
P.S. You accuse me of "not believing the Bible." And by that if you mean I don't hold with using it as a weapon against other people--you are absolutely correct. It is a book, full of contradictions, changes of opinion from one writer to another. About homosexuality alone, the prophets in Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel all write about the sin of Sodom as something OTHER than homosexuality. Was your god stupid when he "breathed" into the ears of those prophets? It seems if homosexuality were such an abomination your god would have reinforced it a lot more than six verses in 66 books. Did he just forget from the time Leviticus was written until those prophets came along?
No, I believe the Bible of Jesus--who pointed out to the Pharisees that they searched the scripture for salvation but could not find it because it points to Him. And you have yet to show me a single scripture where Jesus had a harsh word for anyone other than the most religious people of his day--those who lived the LAW, followed the LAW, and tried to get Him to stone people using the LAW which they had correctly interpreted.
Do like Jesus--tell the woman in adultery, the pedophile, the divorcee, the fat guy, the thief, the pornographer, and the homosexual--"Neither do I condemn you."
God is the judge. The Holy Spirit convicts. And my job is to love. That's the Bible I believe.
Last edited by Wardendresden; 12-11-2014 at 09:16 AM..
The solution is to first seek God with all your heart.
And after a gay person does that, then what?
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Our time on this earth is very brief so greater is the pursuit of spiritual closeness to God than the need to fullfill temporary physical desires. We won't have spouses, partners, or physical sex in the afterlife.
Cop out. Paul tells people who don't have the gift of celibacy to marry if they burn with passion. So what do gays do who burn with passion and weren't blessed with celibacy?
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