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The story of Sodom and Gomorrah is surely the best known of the biblical narratives used to condemn homosexuality. For over a millennium, preachers have employed it – with dramatic effect – to prohibit and punish sex between men. The word “sodomy,” invented by an English churchman to describe male intercourse, helped to transform male sexual relations into an unparalleled evil. For generations, men who were accused of sodomy were humiliated, persecuted, tortured, and put to gruesome death in imitation of the violent divine destruction of Sodom. Today, the people who carry placards reading, “God hates ****” know this must be so by reading their Bible.
The details of the story in the Book of Genesis, chapter 19, are well known. God knows that the cry from Sodom is great and sends angels to investigate the gravity of the situation. Lot, the patriarch of Sodom’s only decent family, ushers the angelic guests into his house. After dinner, the townsfolk of Sodom clamor at the door, demanding that Lot send out the guests “that they might know them.”
Despite the common perception that the sin of Sodom was rampant sexual vice, Jewish literature has largely rejected this reading. The Prophet Ezekiel locates the sin of Sodom in its inhospitality, its cruelty and perversion of justice, and not in homosexuality. He describes Sodom as arrogant and insensitive to human need. The residents of Sodom had plenty of bread and untroubled tranquility, yet they refused to support the poor and the needy.
Among early rabbinic commentators, the common reading of the sin of Sodom was its cruelty, arrogance and disdain for the poor. The sages of the Babylonian Talmud also associated Sodom with the sins of pride, envy, cruelty to orphans, theft, murder, and perversion of justice. While the event which sealed the fate of the Sodomites was their demand for Lot to bring out his guests so that the mob might “know” them, this still was not seen so much as an act of sexual excess, but as hatred of the stranger and exploitation of the weak. Midrashic writers lavishly portray Sodom and the surrounding cities as arrogant and self-satisfied, destroyed for the sins of greed and indifference to the poor.
The Real Sin of Sodom | Keshet - My Jewish Learning
If you're gonna quote scripture, at least go to the trouble of learning more about it than what you've heard from the homophobic ramblings of a Sunday School teacher.
The real problem with fundamentalist Christianity is that they are losing the younger generation--and have been for almost a decade. The membership numbers of fundamentalist churches continue to decline. And a study done seven years ago indicates that it is their very moralistic view of scripture that accounts for disenchantment.
It's sad to see people who otherwise might be a positive influence on the population instead use their faith to drive people away from God, to ensure that the youth of today are disgusted by faith in Christ because they think it is represented by people who have never known Him.
Wrong again!
You cannot justify a having people accept a capital crime.
The sodomites and lesbians need to repent of their sins to be forgiven of their sins. Your false doctrine encourages them to continue on in sin and you try to salve their conscience into believing they have license to sin and you would have God set up a double standard for sodomites and lesbians verses the rest of us.
You need to repent, sir. You are an advocate of s sinful, degenerate lifestyle.
tthttf
PS: Let God deal with this younger generation that rejects God and righteous commandments, statutes and judgements. You are not helping at all by lowering God's standards of righteousness.
You cannot justify a having people accept a capital crime.
The sodomites and lesbians need to repent of their sins to be forgiven of their sins. Your false doctrine encourages them to continue on in sin and you try to salve their conscience into believing they have license to sin and you would have God set up a double standard for sodomites and lesbians verses the rest of us.
You need to repent, sir. You are an advocate of s sinful, degenerate lifestyle.
tthttf
PS: Let God deal with this younger generation that rejects God and righteous commandments, statutes and judgements. You are not helping at all to lower God's standards of righteousness.
You cannot justify a having people accept a capital crime.
The sodomites and lesbians need to repent of their sins to be forgiven of their sins. Your false doctrine encourages them to continue on in sin and you try to salve their conscience into believing they have license to sin and you would have God set up a double standard for sodomites and lesbians verses the rest of us.
You need to repent, sir. You are an advocate of s sinful, degenerate lifestyle.
tthttf
PS: Let God deal with this younger generation that rejects God and righteous commandments, statutes and judgements. You are not helping at all to lower God's standards of righteousness.
I let God take care of His own standards of righteousness. I practice what Jesus told me to practice--to live like Him. Practice mercy and not sacrifice--you are not practicing mercy and you are practicing sacrifice---of someone else, homosexuals, not your own sacrifice. You've as much as called for their death by stoning which places you morally in the same boat with Adolf Hitler.
I don't see you working on the plank in your eye--just moralizing about other people's sin.
The sin of a "sodomite" is no greater than my own, and certainly no greater than your sins.
You are advocating hate and bigotry and disenfranchising and denouncing people who have as much need of Christ in their lives as any one else. Go back and read my responses to Twin about the REAL sin of Sodom and Gomorrah. It was in the way they were treating people. It is the way YOU treat people who are in need of your love and acceptance. Unawares Jesus has come asking for your help--in the guise of a homosexual--and you have rejected Him.
P.S. Your own words back to you--Let God deal with homosexuals. You should practice living for Jesus and getting your heart aligned with His love and mercy.
I let God take care of His own standards of righteousness. I practice what Jesus told me to practice--to live like Him. Practice mercy and not sacrifice--you are not practicing mercy and you are practicing sacrifice---of someone else, homosexuals, not your own sacrifice. You've as much as called for their death by stoning which places you morally in the same boat with Adolf Hitler.
I don't see you working on the plank in your eye--just moralizing about other people's sin.
The sin of a "sodomite" is no greater than my own, and certainly no greater than your sins.
You are advocating hate and bigotry and disenfranchising and denouncing people who have as much need of Christ in their lives as any one else. Go back and read my responses to Twin about the REAL sin of Sodom and Gomorrah. It was in the way they were treating people. It is the way YOU treat people who are in need of your love and acceptance. Unawares Jesus has come asking for your help--in the guise of a homosexual--and you have rejected Him.
P.S. Your own words back to you--Let God deal with homosexuals. You should practice living for Jesus and getting your heart aligned with His love and mercy.
I am not trying to bring them in and justify their sins and pat them on the back and say -- go ahead and keep on sinning I am 100% for you and neither am I trying to take the law into my own hands and kill them as the scriptures say is the judgement for their sins.
I am pointing out that they are sinners and they need to repent of this sin. Just as I have to repent of all of my sins. There is not double standards with God. We are suppose to all be emulating the perfect example of Jesus Christ and forsake our old rotten lifestyle be it adultery, homosexuality, whatever.
We don't have ax-murdering-Christians, homosexual-Christians, pedofile-Christians, kidnapping-Christians, rapist-Christians, etc, etc. Christians are to put away all spiritual leaven from their lives (don't let homosexuality off the hook) and NOT do as you are advocating by claiming that you are a Christian with never really repenting of your sins.
Peter in the first inspired sermon after the Holy Spirit was given on the Day of Pentecost, what did he say that one needs to do? Did he just say come as you are? Did he say just receive God's Holy Spirit? NO!
Peter said first of all to REPENT!!
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
How can one be forgiven of their sins without repentance? You can't. You are preaching a false Christianity, a false Jesus if you leave out repentance.
It is time you woke up to this fact and quit trying to deceive others with this false theology.
Sodomites and lesbians need to repent of their perverted lifestyles and put away all the rest of their sins as well.
REPENT! AND DON'T FORGET THIS! IT IS A MOST IMPORTANT STEP!
I am not trying to bring them in and justify their sins and pat them on the back and say -- go ahead and keep on sinning I am 100% for you and neither am I trying to take the law into my own hands and kill them as the scriptures say is the judgement for their sins.
I am pointing out that they are sinners and they need to repent of this sin. Just as I have to repent of all of my sins. There is not double standards with God. We are suppose to all be emulating the perfect example of Jesus Christ and forsake our old rotten lifestyle be it adultery, homosexuality, whatever.
We don't have ax-murdering-Christians, homosexual-Christians, pedofile-Christians, kidnapping-Christians, rapist-Christians, etc, etc. Christians are to put away all spiritual leaven from their lives (don't let homosexuality off the hook) and do as you are advocating try to claim you are a Christian with never really repenting of your sins.
Peter in the first inspired sermon after the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost, what did he say that one needs to do? Did he just say come as you are? Did he say just receive God's Holy Spirit? NO!
Peter said first of all to REPENT!!
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
How can one be forgiven of their sins without repentance? You can't. You are preaching a false Christianity, a false Jesus if you leave out repentance.
It is time you woke up to this fact and quit trying to deceive others with this false theology.
Sodomites and lesbians need to repent of their perverted lifestyles and put away all the rest of their sins as well.
REPENT! AND DON'T FORGET THIS! IT IS A MOST IMPORTANT STEP!
tthttf
I agree!!!! You need to practice it more frequently.
I'm not trying to get anyone to overlook sin. I'm trying to get YOU to understand that YOUR sin is in every fashion as despicable and evil as anyone else's. You have no moral high ground. Your righteousness is filthy rags in the sight of God. So where do you get off on pointing fingers. Until your righteousness is far more righteous than it is appearing in these threads, you have absolutely no business talking about anyone else's sin. Don't you BELIEVE Jesus' words about judging not lest you be judged? Apparently not--that's another sin you can chalk up.
When I look at you or ANY homosexual--or even myself. I see the same thing. Sinners--continual sinners--who can only hope God will provide them with grace and mercy. For the homosexual and myself I hold out the slimmest of hope. For you, I have not seen anything that would make me think quite as positively.
But keep working on that plank, I don't think God has given up on you entirely.
And if you don't want to kill homosexuals as you understand the Bible to be instructing, then why are you criticizing others about having a different view of their "sin." We are no less following the scripture than you are. All in or all out.
I'm not trying to get anyone to overlook sin. I'm trying to get YOU to understand that YOUR sin is in every fashion as despicable and evil as anyone else's. You have no moral high ground. Your righteousness is filthy rags in the sight of God. So where do you get off on pointing fingers. Until your righteousness is far more righteous than it is appearing in these threads, you have absolutely no business talking about anyone else's sin. Don't you BELIEVE Jesus' words about judging not lest you be judged? Apparently not--that's another sin you can chalk up.
When I look at you or ANY homosexual--or even myself. I see the same thing. Sinners--continual sinners--who can only hope God will provide them with grace and mercy. For the homosexual and myself I hold out the slimmest of hope. For you, I have not seen anything that would make me think quite as positively.
But keep working on that plank, I don't think God has given up on you entirely.
And if you don't want to kill homosexuals as you understand the Bible to be instructing, then why are you criticizing others about having a different view of their "sin." We are no less following the scripture than you are. All in or all out.
You are wrong!
You are confusing my personal judgements with God's judgements.
And you are trying to dodge the argument of true repentance. If you believe homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle backed up by God the Father and Jesus Christ then you sir, have never really read and comprehended the Bible.
Your position is like the members of the church in Corinth who were puffed up and allowed a man engaged in a relationship with his step mother and they had not mourned that he would be put out. You are patting yourself on the back and proclaiming how much more love you have than me because you can tolerate sin and somehow I am inferior to you since I won't tolerate it.
1 Corinthians 5 (KJV)
1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
You are puffed up and are not advocating proper Christian conduct.
Instead of bringing unrepentant sodomites and lesbians into your fellowship and getting all puffed up about it because in your own eyes you have so much more love than those who condemn their sins (not them personally) you should be condemning this wicked lifestyle so these people will see their error and repent and eventually be given God's Holy Spirit and ultimately be saved.
Your are actually a far more hindrance in the process of conversion than you can ever imagine and yet you are so blind to it because you are so obsecessed with a glorfied concept of your own self-righteousness it is actually the plank in your own eye that is your problem.
One must repent and I am giving out one of pieces of the puzzle that some who are trapped in the sin of homosexuality need to find if they are ever to start the process of conversion to a true Christian and to eternal life.
You are confusing my personal judgements with God's judgements.
And you are trying to dodge the argument of true repentance. If you believe homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle backed up by God the Father and Jesus Christ then you sir, have never really read and comprehended the Bible.
Your position is like the members of the church in Corinth who were puffed up and allowed a man engaged in a relationship with his step mother and they had not mourned that he would be put out. You are patting yourself on the back and proclaiming how much more love you have than me because you can tolerate sin and somehow I am inferior to you since I won't tolerate it.
1 Corinthians 5 (KJV)
1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
You are puffed up and are not advocating proper Christian conduct.
Instead of bringing unrepentant sodomites and lesbians into your fellowship and getting all puffed up about it because in your own eyes you have so much more love than those who condemn their sins (not them personally) you should be condemning this wicked lifestyle so these people will see their error and repent and eventually be given God's Holy Spirit and ultimately be saved.
Your are actually a far more hindrance in the process of conversion than you can ever imagine and yet you are so blind to it because you are so obsecessed with a glorfied concept of your own self-righteousness it is actually the plank in your own eye that is your problem.
One must repent and I am giving out one of pieces of the puzzle that some who are trapped in the sin of homosexuality need to find if they are ever to start the process of conversion to a true Christian and to eternal life.
Purge out therefore the old leaven...
tthttf
Do you feel this fired up about your own sins, or just other's?
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