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What bull you spout. Haven't you even read your Bible?
All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
Bottom line is---either you keep ALL of the LAW or not. If you fail in even one law you have failed in them all. If you don't believe children should be put to death for cursing their parents, or fortunetellers stoned, or burning the preacher's daughter to death if she fornicates, then why do you believe in hanging on to JUST THE LAW ABOUT HOMOSEXUALS. Is the law about the Sabbath no longer of importance? Probably 40%-50% of America is working on the Sabbath. Shouldn't you be demanding their death.
Let me explain it to you, and tthttf, and jeffbase40--you do it because you hold a prejudice against one group of people. If the Bible were really as sacred as you say, you would be attempting to have ALL the law upheld by religious people. You do not, because it is only "safe" for you to point your prejudicial fingers at homosexuals.
And for that God will judge you all severely.
Obviously you missed that part in the Bible where Jesus Christ paid the sin penalty for our sins so we are saved by grace, not by obeying the law. That doesn't give us a freedom card to sin all we want. At the very least, sin chokes the spiritual relationship that we have with God.
Obviously you missed that part in the Bible where Jesus Christ paid the sin penalty for our sins so we are saved by grace, not by obeying the law. That doesn't give us a freedom card to sin all we want. At the very least, sin chokes the spiritual relationship that we have with God.
I've bolded the important part of what you posted. Why do you keep on insisting that we should obey the law in Leviticus?
The worst sins are by those who hate, despise, and condemn others instead of looking at their own sins. Read what Jesus said. Almost always He was speaking to religious, bible-quoting people when He told them they missed the whole message of the OT.
It's interesting to note that where bible thumpers stand up against homosexuality it is always in a self-righteous attitude, never in a spirit of love and concern. Sort of like how they stand up against abortion---providing such christlike examples.
So, what does it mean, when God says, “I desire mercy, not sacrifice…”? (Hos. 6:6a) The key word is “mercy.” The Old Testament uses chesed, the Hebrew word translated “mercy,” numerous times, usually meaning God’s mercy towards sinners, Israel, or a specific person. Thus, the verse contrasts the classic antitheses of appearance versus reality, form versus substance, and ultimately, faithfulness versus hypocrisy. The word rendered here as “mercy” is loaded with meaning, and the accusation implicit in it is damning in the most literal sense.
Finally, let’s not forget Who is speaking. It is the Lord telling us, “I desire…” If no other lesson can be derived from the Bible, there is this, that when God wants something, either He gets it or there is an accounting. In quoting Hosea 6:6, Jesus not only exposed the Pharisees’ weakness and sin but their danger as well.
In this age of grace, He still wants the same thing, goodness and mercy, justice and neighbor-love, all the products of a heart that is a friend to God. C. H. Toy was right: God wants people to learn how to have a heart like His. And He sends His Spirit to us to create that new heart.
The Pharisees did not understand Hosea 6:6 rightly for the same reason that they did not understand the Law rightly. Jesus accused them, through the Hosea quotation, of the most extreme hypocrisy, adherence to form while omitting the substance, feigning allegiance to the Lord while practicing idolatry in their hearts. Numerous times, Israel had been told the secret of their relationship to God: “the Lord will circumcise thine heart,” (Deut. 30:6) and “Rend your heart, not your garments,” (Joel 2:13)
Once you really find Jesus as your Savior, He changes how you view everyone else--EVERYONE. He makes you see your enemy in the same light as your best friend. He purposes to give you a mirror into your own heart so that becomes your focus for sin--not focusing on anyone else's real or perceived sin. Your own sin is understood to be so ugly that everyone else's sin looks to be glorious light by comparison.
When you can do that--then you really know you are saved by grace.
Last edited by Wardendresden; 11-25-2014 at 08:25 AM..
Obviously you missed that part in the Bible where Jesus Christ paid the sin penalty for our sins so we are saved by grace, not by obeying the law. That doesn't give us a freedom card to sin all we want. At the very least, sin chokes the spiritual relationship that we have with God.
So true! Some will make a silly argument that you are using the law to show the sin of homosexuality but that is just a game. Sin is still sin. They should be grateful that Christians are not under the law today.
Jesus Christ LOVED sinners. That's why He spent so much time with them.
You simply wish to justify personal hate by hiding behind scripture. Jesus condemned Pharisees for doing that exact thing. He told them that they thought they would find salvation in the scripture, but that scripture pointed to Him. And guess what? He LOVED sinners. If He hated sinners so much why didn't He spend all His time like you are doing--condemning them?
You have a polluted view of Scripture and need to do some critical study if you believe it was Jesus speaking to Moses--Moses who never composed a single word of the OT. The Torah is the work of at least four different authors, identified as Jehovah writer, Elhoiem writer, Deuteronomic writer, and Priestly writer. You have a Sunday School approach to scripture which is why you get it wrong so frequently.
Jesus said love your enemies, pray for them who despitefully use you. What did Paul say--pray for your enemies so you can heap coals of fire on their heads. You can have Paul. I'll stick with Jesus. Paul is easy to follow because his writing often plays into prejudice. Jesus is much harder because it calls on one to deny self.
If you want to read I Corinthians go over to the thirteenth chapter and read the verse that says, "These three abide, faith, hope, and love. And the greatest of these is LOVE. Try practicing it some. Then no one will be thinking of you as a wicked person.
Your love/hate attacks are just a cover for your disobedience to God. If you loved God you would keep His Commandments.
Christ, Peter, Paul, James, etc kept God's Commandments. Christ said to have eternal life -- keep the Commandments.
I could go on but Paul in 1 Corinthians 5 absolutely blows your whole false system of Christianity to bits and leaves you defenseless. He has addressed one of the very sins listed in Leviticus 18 and given a clear example of what a true minister of God should do in such a situation and all you can come back with is that I am a meanie person who hates people because I am speaking out against the sin of homosexuality.
Paul has beaten you and your false religion to a pulp and you are left mumbling false accusations about my character as your only response. At least admit like a man that you are wrong and the Scriptures have proved it, not me. God inspiring Paul to write down his words actually is the One that gets the credit.
“You shall not commit murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not commit pederasty, you shall not commit fornication, you shall not steal, you shall not practice magic, you shall not practice witchcraft, you shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill one that has been born” (Didache 2:2 [A.D. 70]).
Your love/hate attacks are just a cover for your disobedience to God. If you loved God you would keep His Commandments.
Christ, Peter, Paul, James, etc kept God's Commandments. Christ said to have eternal life -- keep the Commandments.
I could go on but Paul in 1 Corinthians 5 absolutely blows your whole false system of Christianity to bits and leaves you defenseless. He has addressed one of the very sins listed in Leviticus 18 and given a clear example of what a true minister of God should do in such a situation and all you can come back with is that I am a meanie person who hates people because I am speaking out against the sin of homosexuality.
Paul has beaten you and your false religion to a pulp and you are left mumbling false accusations about my character as your only response. At least admit like a man that you are wrong and the Scriptures have proved it, not me. God inspiring Paul to write down his words actually is the One that gets the credit.
tthttf
Paul was a man. A sinful man. Do you believe Christ was sinful? Then understand that Jesus' words and actions ALWAYS trumps those of sinful man.
But keep up your worship of Paul. I prefer to worship and follow the One who gave His life for all. Nothing you have posted reflects Jesus. Instead it reflects the thought process of the ones Jesus called "vipers."
Your best friends are in the ten Muslim nations that legalize killing homosexuals. Apparently no matter how many they have killed God keeps allowing more to be born. I think you would be much more comfortable in a setting that still has a god, but a god who proposes killing people you don't like. Try Iran or Saudi Arabia.
So true! Some will make a silly argument that you are using the law to show the sin of homosexuality but that is just a game. Sin is still sin. They should be grateful that Christians are not under the law today.
If we are not under the law, then homosexuality is not an abomination. You don't get to choose which laws apply today and which do not. Unless you worship Paul, of course, who knew the law very well and proposed KEEPING some of it while stating we are NOT under the law. If that isn't doublespeak nothing is.
If we are not under the law, then homosexuality is not an abomination. You don't get to choose which laws apply today and which do not. Unless you worship Paul, of course, who knew the law very well and proposed KEEPING some of it while stating we are NOT under the law. If that isn't doublespeak nothing is.
It appears you do not understand. Sorry about that!
Paul was a man. A sinful man. Do you believe Christ was sinful? Then understand that Jesus' words and actions ALWAYS trumps those of sinful man.
But keep up your worship of Paul. I prefer to worship and follow the One who gave His life for all. Nothing you have posted reflects Jesus. Instead it reflects the thought process of the ones Jesus called "vipers."
Your best friends are in the ten Muslim nations that legalize killing homosexuals. Apparently no matter how many they have killed God keeps allowing more to be born. I think you would be much more comfortable in a setting that still has a god, but a god who proposes killing people you don't like. Try Iran or Saudi Arabia.
The vipers that you refer practiced extreme legalism with the law to the point of being illogical. Jesus pointed out the stupidity of such extreme here:
"Now if a boy can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing a man's whole body on the Sabbath?" John 7:23
Now homosexuality is a great offense before God. It is a complete 180 reversal of the beautiful design that He created for man and woman to join together in marriage. My belief that it is sin is not the same thing as extreme legalism. My belief is based on God's word, and Paul's teachings are part of that Word. I've seen people come to salvation from those teachings. But you want to degrade him because Paul is very specific about homosexuality.
But since you are so strict about only examining Christ's words, Jesus did speak out against sexual immorality in Matthew 19:8-9. The word "porneia" can include homosexuality. Now the claim that Jesus never say a word against homosexuality is weakened.
I see the spiritual mastodons are still bellowing impotently.
Don't worry Warden, Dew and all you other enlightened folks - they'll sink into oblivion within a couple of generations.
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