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Old 10-23-2014, 12:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedogie View Post
TO the OP: Because Jesus never said everyone would be saved. Yes, He is the one and Only Savior and He has made attonement for the sins of all mankind, but without faith, without a desire to repent of ones sins, there is no salvation. Remember that Jesus also said.

Lk 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. The Greek word there can also be translated, "destroyed."

Mt 11:21 “Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
Mt 11:22 But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you.
Mt 11:23 And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths. If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day.
Mt 11:24 But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”
Jesus is the one who told Paul that God will have all mankind to be saved and that God is the Saviour of all mankind. Jesus also spoke the words you quoted above. Therefore it is a sure thing that Jesus took those words differently than you do. They are not allowed to contradict what Jesus LATER said to Paul.

"eternal" should not be read into "Perish." Jesus said "I have come to seek and to save the perished/destroyed/lost sheep of the house of Israel." No one is so perished that they can't be saved.

All the verses you quoted above are to be understood as to what will occur PRIOR to all mankind being saved.
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Old 10-23-2014, 12:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
More spam.

Why is it a sure thing? You only told us this is the right belief, not why it is.
It is a sure thing that God will have all mankind to be saved FOR Christ gave Himself a ransom for all [mankind] (1 Tim.2:4-6).

Since all mankind have been ransomed all mankind MUST be freed from sin and death and brought into God's salvation.

Search "ransom" through the entire Old Testament. Every animal or human ransomed had to be freed.
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Old 10-23-2014, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
There is everything in the passage that supports all will be saved.

Isa_46:10 Telling from the beginning, the hereafter, and from aforetime, what has not yet been done.
Saying, `All My counsel shall be confirmed, and all My desire will I do.'"
No, Christ did not get His desire regarding the Jews.

"How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn't let me."
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Old 10-23-2014, 12:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
No, Christ did not get His desire regarding the Jews.

"How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn't let me."
God, according to the verse I quoted, gets what He desires.

Isa_46:10 Telling from the beginning, the hereafter, and from aforetime, what has not yet been done.
Saying, `All My counsel shall be confirmed, and all My desire will I do.'"

Jesus knew this:

the Messiah came to His people, not to be received by them and to set up His kingdom, but to be rejected and crucified, with a view to the reconciliation of all.

If God wanted to withdraw the blinders off of Israel which He began in Isaiah's day:

Mat_13:14 And filled up in them is the prophecy of Isaiah, that is saying,
'"In hearing, you will be hearing, and may by no means be understanding,
And observing, you will be observing, and may by no means be perceiving

He surely would have. One day He will (Romans 11:32).


God truly will have all mankind to be saved for Christ ransomed all mankind (see 1 Timothy 2:4-6).
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Old 10-23-2014, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
God, according to the verse I quoted, gets what He desires.
According to the verse I quoted , there are situations when God will allow free will. The verse says he desired to gather His people, but they refused. Actually it says it has happened more than once.
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Old 10-23-2014, 01:04 PM
 
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
According to the verse I quoted , there are situations when God will allow free will. The verse says he desired to gather His people, but they refused. Actually it says it has happened more than once.
It hadn't happened yet, according to the passage you quoted.

If the CU's (and Isaiah) are right, however, then eventually God WILL gather everyone like chicks under her wings, just as God desires.
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Old 10-23-2014, 01:21 PM
 
Location: New England
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Here is what Jesus said about "desire"

Therefore I say unto you, What things soever YOU DESIRE, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye SHALL have them.

I know this much about Jesus Christ, he prayed a lot.

Can i get an amen at least from you universalists?.
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Old 10-23-2014, 01:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Here is what Jesus said about "desire"

Therefore I say unto you, What things soever YOU DESIRE, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye SHALL have them.

.
Here is the context:

Mark 11:22-24 And answering, Jesus is saying to them, "If you have faith of God, (23) verily, I am saying to you that whosoever may be saying to this mountain, 'Be picked up and cast into the sea,' and may not be doubting in his heart, but should be believing that what he is speaking is occurring, it shall be his, whatsoever he may be saying." (24) Therefore I am saying to you, All, whatever you are praying and requesting, be believing that you obtained, and it will be yours."

1) That was only during the era of the kingdom powers.
2) They have to have the faith of God to believe what they pray for will occur.
3) I don't think Jesus was telling them to pray for mansions of Lear Jets and Yachts.
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Old 10-23-2014, 01:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
According to the verse I quoted , there are situations when God will allow free will. The verse says he desired to gather His people, but they refused. Actually it says it has happened more than once.
There is no such critter as "free will." Mankind has a will. That will is the will of the flesh (Eph.2:3; John 1:13). The flesh is not able to please God (Rom.8:8). Therefore the will of man is not able to please God, those who are in flesh.
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Old 10-23-2014, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Florida
76,971 posts, read 47,629,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
There is no such critter as "free will." Mankind has a will. That will is the will of the flesh (Eph.2:3; John 1:13). The flesh is not able to please God (Rom.8:8). Therefore the will of man is not able to please God, those who are in flesh.
Simple: Christ desired them to come, and they refused. Period. They used their free will to go against God's desire.
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