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Here is a thrilling poem by Matthew Arnold that I'm sure you will enjoy, keeping in mind the following fact. Universalism was The Prevailing Doctrine Of The Christian Church During Its First Five Hundred Years http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Prevailing.html
As students of the history of Christian doctrine know, among believers in eternal torment, Tertullian was one of the most extreme. That is why I think this poem is so powerful. It sent a thrill up and down my spine.
“He saves the sheep, the goats he doth not save!”
So rang Tertullian’s sentence, on the side
Of that unpitying Phrygian sect which cried, --
“Him can no fount of fresh forgiveness lave
Who sins, once washed by the baptismal wave!”
So spake the fierce Tertullian. But she sighed,
The infant church, of love she felt the tide
Stream on her from her Lord’s yet recent grave, And then she smiled, and in the Catacombs,
With eye suffused, but heart inspired true,
On those walls subterranean, where she hid
Her head in ignominy, death and tombs,
She her Good Shepherd’s hasty image drew, And on His shoulders, not a lamb, a kid.
Glad you are posting again, Rodger. Hope your wife improves. It seems like it is one thing after the other at our age. My wife and I are dealing with similar issues but we have only been married 51 years. Be well in Christ's love,
~Mystic
Thanks Mystic.
Just this past Friday Helen had cancer removed from her skin.
Just another one thing after the others.
I am comforted by perceptions like the following.
CONVERSATIONS ON THE DIVINE GOVERNMENT – Theophilus Lindsey "Everything is from God, and for the good of all. All things, good as well as what we call evil, are appointed by Infinite Wisdom and Benevolence, for the wisest and most gracious purposes for everyone.”
Originally Posted by rodgertutt
For several years I have been posting my many UR snippets almost every day on around fifty other Christian forums that let me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
I have followed some of those postings, it's good to see you back.
For, we have not been given the Spirit of fear. But one of power, love; and that of a sound mind.
Peace, be with you, as you continue to live in this life.
Thank you for your encouragement Jerwade.
The author of the book called THE GOD OF ALL COMFORT also wrote the following.
MY UNEXPECTED DISCOVERY – HANNAH WHITALL SMITH
Author of the Christian classic best seller THE CHRISTIAN’S SECRET OF A HAPPY LIFE
“As an escape from the doctrine of eternal torment, I at first embraced the doctrine of annihilation for the wicked, and for a little while tried to comfort myself with the belief that this life ended all for them. But the more I thought of it, the more it seemed to me that it would be a confession of serious failure on the part of the Creator, if He could find no way out of the problem of His creation, but to annihilate the creatures whom He had created.
One day a revelation came to me that vindicated God, and settled the whole problem forever. I saw that it was true, as the Bible says, that ‘as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.’ As was the first, even so was the second. The ‘all’ in one case could not in fairness mean less than the all in the other. I saw therefore that the remedy must necessarily be equal to the disease. The salvation must be as universal as the fall.
I saw this that day on the tram-car on Market Street, Philadelphia -- not only thought it, or hoped it -- but knew it. It was a Divine fact. And from that moment I have never had a questioning thought as to the final destiny of the human race. The how and the when I could not see; but the one essential fact was all I needed -- somewhere and somehow God was going to make everything right for all the creatures He had created. My heart was at rest about it forever.”
Thanks Scarlet. Our son lives in Kingman which is not far from you in Tucon.
Here is his tribute to my work. You might find it interesting.
A TRIBUTE TO MY FATHERS WORK
by Steven Tutt
Rodger Tutt has taken it upon himself to address and confront one of the central ideas of many Christians and of one most misused and misdirected tools of Christianity; that of controlling people through the fear of endless hell.
His heart-felt knowing of God let him ask something like - If God Loves us, and is omnipotent, how could/would God determine that any being suffering endlessly would/could serve Loves purpose?
Even with the imposed threat of his eternal damnation looming over his head, his spirit could not accept this distortion of Gods Love.
He was taught that even to question the teachings, or consider another perspective was a sin. He had to swallow and believe everything he was told, no questions. This type of "fear-control" of a persons free thought and freedom to consider and evaluate other options is a very destructive, controlling, and blatant misuse of mind control and manipulation.
Even with no one else to back him up and no other alternative idea to comfort him, he knew, if only through its absence that there was another way. So he set out into the emptiness of total blind faith, alone, with no map, and no cane, only the pure faith and knowing that God is Love, to find the description or view of God that gave the true picture of a loving God.
I'm sure if you ask him he will tell you something like " he had no faith or knowing that God was Love at all, and that he had a nervous breakdown, and could only hope there was a better way".
But his inability to accept that a loving God would let any being suffer forever shows me that even though he had no words to describe what he felt, he knew this was not the way of Love or a loving God. Nervous Breakdown, whatever, call it what you will. I think it was the true loving God taking hold of him in the only language he had been taught, fear. I think it said to him in a voice he only could hear inside himself, something like:
"This that you call a nervous breakdown, is my loving hands stopping you from a life lived in fear.
Those that you love will damn you, as those that I loved betrayed me. But they do not know me as you do, they think I am a cruel God, but even though you have no words to protest your heart knows me and knows that I am a God of Love.
You may not understand what I am doing in your mind, or know that this fear is my hands loving you, because I talk to you with the grip of fear, and deep inside you know I am love. But, know in your soul where you have not words for it, that when this fear passes you will be free to live in the knowing of my Love.
Know that none will need to suffer forever, or even for a moment more than must be. Those who damn you are damning themselves to a life lived in fear, for they choose to believe that their God would allow a being to suffer eternal extreme cruelty with nothing good ever coming from it. In their minds they live in a world which is ruled by a cruel God.
When they are drawing their final breaths they may still believe they are being delivered into such cruel hands. They will not live in the peace knowing of my unconditional Love until they accept that none will be lost, none will be left behind.
I am assisting you through this temporary fear for it stops you from swallowing the poison of accepting that I am a cruel God. Here I set you free. I set free to find the way of my love which is unconditional, and if one loves without condition, none can be turned away."
Rodger’s experience was of terror, immobilizing, paralyzing. He did not have the comfort of realizing what was said to him at the time. But he went on anyway, and searched as in the dark for people with other answers, as one would search for needles in a haystack. The people-needles would help him burst the bubbles of illusion and fear people had blown into his brain. In time he found these people amongst the billions that live on this earth and from each he took and preserved each little needle they gave and from them he fashioned a sword of truth, a sword of Love and Light that he would use to cut away the bonds of control, fear and guilt from others, and let them see the Love of God.
Someone had to make the sword, and working metal is a hot and tiresome job. The sword had to be very strong. Much time was needed to be put into its making. Its strength had to be of the highest integrity, so many tests were put upon it.
Rodger Tutt was commissioned by God to make this sword. He is his own testament to himself that everything will be better that it happened. For if he did not go through what he did he would never have known how the sword must be made or had the persistence to see its completion.
His spirit is the essence of the sword.
The words of his book, the actions of his life, his thoughts and speech, make up the blade.
When I was growing up I remember hearing the forging of that sword. For many hours of many days, behind the door of his sword making shop that he called his room, I heard him forming its shape and perfecting the details on the forge he called his typewriter. I hear he still sits sharpening his sword.
He is generous in letting others use it.
I'm sure he will share the sword with you if you ask.
The proud son of a spiritual warrior called Rodger Tutt.
Steve P. Tutt
(HE HAS COMPILED AN EXTENSIVE LIST OF LITERATURE THAT SUPPORTS HIS VIEWS)
You know my son a little bit because you read his tribute to me.
Pray for him because I have just learned that he and his lady friend have parted ways.
It may have been partly due to her believing in eternal torment.
A marriage that includes such a major difference of opinion would have problems I would think.
So maybe it is just as well.
I'm so glad that even though my wife was trained in an eternal punishment Bible school, she herself was never able to believe it. She was a HUGE help to me during my twelve year breakdown over the issue.
you will start to more continuously abide in His love
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarletWren
I hope things turn out well for your son, Rodger
Thanks ScarletWren.
I love this quote from Michael Killian
THE “EVIL” FROM THE LORD – MICHAEL KILLIAN
“All men will be saved. But God isn’t trying to redeem everyone in this age, only that chosen generation that Paul spoke of.
Believing that the evil in this world has its purpose for good will bring much peace to your heart. And then to realize that God in someway, somehow, will eventually use evil to bring about good for everyone, will further add to your peace. As this revelation of the Prince of Peace is unfolded to your turbulent, battle-weary heart, you will start to more continuously abide in His love.
God not only ‘allows’ evil in this present world, but rather ordains it. No more, and no less evil than God Himself determines, will happen to anyone during any certain day.”
(end quote)
I agree. There are many things that Adam did not know in his pristine state and there are and many things that we learn and develop from the whole experience of sin and death. I believe that there are so many levels, so many facets or aspects to this, depending which perspective we are looking through. God bless.
Shana, the following is my all-time favorite quote. I’ve had it memorized for many years and I quote it frequently. As a staunch universalist, Dr. Leslie Weatherhead meant it to include everyone without exception, after everyone who needs it experiences kolasis aionion, or age-during corrective punishment.
“God’s purposes are so vast and glorious, beyond all guessing now, that when they are achieved and consummated, all our sufferings and sorrows of today, even the agonies that nearly break our faith, the disasters that well nigh overwhelm us, shall, seen from that fair country where God’s age long dreams come true, bulk as little as bulk now the pieces of a broken toy upon a nursery floor, over which, thinking that all our little world was in ruins, we cried ourselves to sleep.”
Dr. Leslie Weatherhead
Quoted from THE CHRISTIAN AGNOSTIC – DR. LESLIE D. WEATHERHEAD
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The god of all comfort
Thank you for your encouragement
A tribute to my fathers work
