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Except it's obvious that in a lot of books of the bible they don't have intimate knowledge of the time period they are writing in. That pretty much casts aside the belief that they were written in the same time period.
You are wrong. Archaeological spade work has been very supportive of the biblical narrative. Archaeological theories on the other hand often seem to go out of their way to contradict scriptures.
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Originally Posted by Lucidkitty
Nobody knows how long he taught for and there are only the Gospels that report any of that.
Correct. The length of Jesus' ministry is a calculation based on the events of Jesus' public ministry. It isn't definitive. However there seems to be little opposition among scholars to 3&1/2 year hypothesis. I wonder if you are equally as sceptical about theories that oppose the biblical narrative.
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Originally Posted by Lucidkitty
Yes, according to CHRISTIAN sources which have a vested interest in supporting that claim. How many secular and contemporary sources make the same claim though?
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Originally Posted by Lucidkitty
There is pretty much no record of them at all outside of Christian sources.
That was one of my points. We can follow an unbroken trail of believers from the second century back to the Apostles and Jesus Christ. The claims made about Jesus' ministry and resurrection were made while the crowds that were there, still lived to refute or acknowledge them.
Christians weren't the only people who could write. The Jewish religion as well as others had a vested interest in Jesus and this new religion that was growing so fast. That was true then just as it is true now. The one big difference between now and then is now you can deny the miracles and the resurrections today without an eye witness disputing your assertion.
It is certain that not everyone who witness Jesus' miracles or resurrected body became believers. Many Christian believers were persecuted or killed for their faith. Many lost employment or were rejected by their families. It wasn't an easy life. But what these people couldn't do was deny what they seen.
Christianity grew rapidly in the first century. They were an immediate threat to the Jewish religious leaders in Jerusalem. Because of this the first persecutions occurred which served to spread the believers throughout the Roman empire. The reason why the Jewish religious leaders were silent on Jesus was because they couldn't dispute the events of His life and ministry. They rejected the claim that he was the promised Messiah but, couldn't deny such public events didn't happen.
Look out into the country sky on a clear night and imagine the numbers of stars you would be able to see if you could only see back 10,000 years. The stars would be very sparse.
Remember that age old question "What came first the chicken or the egg?". Well clearly the bible says the chicken came first. God also created the trees fully formed and organic matter in various degrees of decay to sustain them underneath.
I'm sure God in his infinite wisdom upon giving us stars also gave us the ability to enjoy the light from them.
Remember that age old question "What came first the chicken or the egg?". Well clearly the bible says the chicken came first. God also created the trees fully formed and organic matter in various degrees of decay to sustain them underneath.
I'm sure God in his infinite wisdom upon giving us stars also gave us the ability to enjoy the light from them.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BishopRidge
For future reference, when I use the word "fact", I am using it's literal meaning. Something that is actually true. Not something that can later be modified or changed. As Cupper has now admitted, often what those in the scientific community do is call something a "fact" that ends up not being a fact. A fact would not need further experiements or study because a "fact" will never change.
Is that a christian trait to totally misconstrue what I said? Talk about not understanding context.
You are wrong. Archaeological spade work has been very supportive of the bibexistentlical narrative. Archaeological theories on the other hand often seem to go out of their way to contradict scriptures.
No it has not. As we get closer to the modern era the support for aspects of the bible grow. Pre 10th Century however has very little support archaeologically. Once you go from there you have complementary sources that confirm king lists and certain biblical narratives. The Moabite rebellion and the overthrowing of Jehoram being the most prominent discoveries. The issue is they both condradict the biblical tale as do other ones. We know there is a mention of David, but there is no writing from his time to confirm his presence, and any support of a large kingdom at his lifespan is very thin. Most of it based on the works of handful of archaeologists who don't have the support of broader community.
If you go further back past Kings there is no evidence to support the tales written. There ignore the socio political realities of the time. Which is odd because the biblical tales in kings often have contemporary sources confirming some of the events. Very odd that they would be so excellent at writing about the invasion of Israel and Judah by The Assyrians, but forget to mention the invasion of the land by the Egyptians in 1207, or the collapse of Bronze age culture. The latter being a major event of the time who's effects brought down 3 Empires. Then of course there are things completely made up such as the conquest which has absolutely zero support among credible archaeologists. Most of the cities listen as conquered weren't even inhabited in the time period mentioned *Jericho being the prime one*, and the data for a large scale migration into Palestine is non existent. You have very small agrarian communities in the western hills surrounding Jerusalem and the Jordan valley, which show no changes but through gradual population growth over 2 centuries. Strangely enough their pottery is just a less garish version of Canaanite pottery and they carried over the same dislike of pork. That which is course eventually found it's way into the religious views of the Jews. These both show an obvious connection to the broader culture of the city states though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by awsmith
Correct. The length of Jesus' ministry is a calculation based on the events of Jesus' public ministry. It isn't definitive. However there seems to be little opposition among scholars to 3&1/2 year hypothesis. I wonder if you are equally as skeptical about theories that oppose the biblical narrative.
Most New Testament scholars believe it was a year not three. John is the only Gospel who makes the claim and John is considered the least historically accurate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by awsmith
That was one of my points. We can follow an unbroken trail of believers from the second century back to the Apostles and Jesus Christ. The claims made about Jesus' ministry and resurrection were made while the crowds that were there, still lived to refute or acknowledge them.
Christians weren't the only people who could write. The Jewish religion as well as others had a vested interest in Jesus and this new religion that was growing so fast. That was true then just as it is true now. The one big difference between now and then is now you can deny the miracles and the resurrections today without an eye witness disputing your assertion.
And does that stop religious believers of today winning converts? People often believe what they want to with lots of evidence, little evidence, or zero evidence. The very defintion of faith is believing without seeing in the face of opposition .It's also a dubious view that there would have been anyone to refute the stories since the early churches growth was centered in the Greek area of the world, far from Judea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by awsmith
It is certain that not everyone who witness Jesus' miracles or resurrected body became believers. Many Christian believers were persecuted or killed for their faith. Many lost employment or were rejected by their families. It wasn't an easy life. But what these people couldn't do was deny what they seen.
If they never saw him to become believers then how could they never deny what they didn't see ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by awsmith
Christianity grew rapidly in the first century
Quote:
Originally Posted by awsmith
. They were an immediate threat to the Jewish religious leaders in Jerusalem. Because of this the first persecutions occurred which served to spread the believers throughout the Roman empire. The reason why the Jewish religious leaders were silent on Jesus was because they couldn't dispute the events of His life and ministry. They rejected the claim that he was the promised Messiah but, couldn't deny such public events didn't happen.
Nope, it's growth was very very slow. Which is why it took 300 years to become a major force in the Empire. The religious leaders in Jerusalem didn't give a fig about the early Christians There were little more than an irritant to the populace. The reason Jewish leaders didn't write about Jesus is because he was unimportant to them. He was an apocalyptic preacher executed for sedition in first century Judea. That wasn't exactly a rare thing at the time.
Remember that age old question "What came first the chicken or the egg?". Well clearly the bible says the chicken came first. God also created the trees fully formed and organic matter in various degrees of decay to sustain them underneath.
I'm sure God in his infinite wisdom upon giving us stars also gave us the ability to enjoy the light from them.
Are you familiar with Redshift? If at any time in history the speed of light had changed, we would be able to see the effect in the light spectrum, specifically expanding toward the red light end of the spectrum. We simply do not see that Furthermore, for God to allow the light from stars millions of light years away to reach earth instantly, he would need to increase the speed of light millions-fold. Using the formula E=MC square, if the speed of light had sped up that much, or even significantly less, the energy from the sun would cook the Earth instantly.
BTW, the Bible states that the moon, stars, and sun were created AFTER the Earth. We know this was not the case.
You are wrong. Archaeological spade work has been very supportive of the biblical narrative. Archaeological theories on the other hand often seem to go out of their way to contradict scriptures.
There might be a reason for that, if you consider it objectively for a moment.
I'm curious about something... has any of that archaeological spade work ever uncovered the massive layer of sediment that would have been deposited over the entire Earth's surface by a worldwide flood?
If so, where is it? If not, why isn't it there? If the flood was only a few thousand years ago, that sediment layer should be literally everywhere, just a few feet below the surface in most places. It's impossible to have an ocean without leaving sediment at the bottom of it after it dries up. Show me that worldwide sediment layer, and I'll buy your flood.
Remember that age old question "What came first the chicken or the egg?". Well clearly the bible says the chicken came first. ...
It is wrong. The fossil evidence is that eggs came long before chickens.
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.It's also a dubious view that there would have been anyone to refute the stories since the early churches growth was centered in the Greek area of the world, far from Judea. 
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