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So why do we need to look forward to Heaven where all disease, pain, suffering, etc are wiped out if He heals us here? Paul said he had a "thorn" (2 Corinthians 12:7) which He did not remove.
God does not heal every sickness nor save us from every catastrophic event until we get to Heaven. That is when all is healed.
I can't imagine going through life and after every sniffle or sore throat, questioning my salvation. I have seen Christians healed and I have seen Christians not healed.
We do not know the mind or will of God. He does things for His own reasons, ultimately to bring Himself glory and make His name known.
So why do we need to look forward to Heaven where all disease, pain, suffering, etc are wiped out if He heals us here? Paul said he had a "thorn" (2 Corinthians 12:7) which He did not remove.
God does not heal every sickness nor save us from every catastrophic event until we get to Heaven. That is when all is healed.
I can't imagine going through life and after every sniffle or sore throat, questioning my salvation. I have seen Christians healed and I have seen Christians not healed.
We do not know the mind or will of God. He does things for His own reasons, ultimately to bring Himself glory and make His name known.
cd :O)
Can you make your case via scriptures on this comment you made:
"God does not heal every sickness nor save us from every catastrophic event until we get to Heaven. That is when all is healed."
Paul seems to refute that statement by saying this:
2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2Co 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
How could Paul be glad to take on an infirmity that God doesn't save him from? This would mean when he was at one point weak that God strength didn't come upon him. His statement would then be false because he says the reason that he takes pleasure in those infirmities is because one he experiences them it is followed by God's strength.
Paul even shows that when he says the following:
2Co 11:23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
2Co 11:24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
2Co 11:25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
2Co 11:26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
2Co 11:27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.
2Co 11:28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.
2Co 11:29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?
2Co 11:30 If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.
In those verses above Paul is boasting in Christ about how he had all these affirmities and yet was rescued from them. He later talks about the thorn in his flesh (which is to suffer persections) and says :
2Co 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
He knows that if he is made weak then he shall be made strong. He can't say that is true if the STRONG part has not yet happened. Therefore, it is talking of receiving that healing and salvations even before he died.
So why do we need to look forward to Heaven where all disease, pain, suffering, etc are wiped out if He heals us here? Paul said he had a "thorn" (2 Corinthians 12:7) which He did not remove.
God does not heal every sickness nor save us from every catastrophic event until we get to Heaven. That is when all is healed.
I can't imagine going through life and after every sniffle or sore throat, questioning my salvation. I have seen Christians healed and I have seen Christians not healed.
We do not know the mind or will of God. He does things for His own reasons, ultimately to bring Himself glory and make His name known.
cd :O)
Wait, that sound and well reasoned and from what I've read and understand an accurate statement.
(Ezekiel 18:4) Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.
(Romans 3:23) For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Cancer and all other diseases are a problem now due to the original fall and until that is corrected, death will hold sway.
ASV Revelation 21:4 and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away.
Here's the REALLY good news!
Don't live for today, live for THE day! The day we will all stand in front of our creator, free of all sin - for it was washed away from the Son of God's sacrifice for us - as He adorns us with rewards for what we did here on earth in fellowship and in sacrifice.
What I have shown here in this thread is that the sick among us - yes those that have cancer, heart disease, etc.. can be cured if they repent and seek God.
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
What I have shown here in this thread is that the sick among us - yes those that have cancer, heart disease, etc.. can be cured if they repent and seek God.
What I have shown here in this thread is that the sick among us - yes those that have cancer, heart disease, etc.. can be cured if they repent and seek God.
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
trettep... are you saying, that if someone gets cancer, that it's because they have not repented of something and they are not seeking God?
What I have shown here in this thread is that the sick among us - yes those that have cancer, heart disease, etc.. can be cured if they repent and seek God.
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
No way, Jose.
You demonstrated a lot of foolishness. That's about it.
It is self-evident that Christians experience the full range of human ailments. I am not aware of any studies that show that there is any statistically significant difference between the frequency of fatal illnesses in Christians and non-Christians. Or even between Christians who believe in and claim diving healing and non-Christians. Anecdotal tales do not count as evidence here. If god provides protection and healing for sincere believers who meet certain conditions, then there will be clear empirical evidence to demonstrate that. Can anyone produce it?
I don't know if records of diseases and outcomes reliably include unambiguous information about whether or not the sufferers were or were not Christians, Christians in good standing or with a certain level of fervency, or with certain beliefs about healing. Probably there are datasets that would at least indicate denominational affiliation which could be back-researched to determine the level of adherence to that denomination's teaching. It would be interesting to relate outcomes for various sub-beliefs about healing and disease, from "name it and claim it" on up to "miracles are not for today", and see if in the great scheme of things there is any actual difference based on belief and practice.
At any rate, until someone can show a demonstrable difference, any other debate we might have -- about, say, whether or not the scriptures promise any such miracles under any conditions to modern Christians -- are a moot point.
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