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Old 11-06-2014, 04:55 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 13,926,713 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
That's not what the regulars over in the Atheism & Agnosticism forum say about why they are who they are or how they came to their current state of non-belief.

There were two threads in the past few months where these things were discussed, and not a single poster was interested in belittling or mocking Christians. Also, they don't seem to think there is any reason they should have to validate their positions.

//www.city-data.com/forum/athei...ised-what.html

//www.city-data.com/forum/athei...osticisim.html
Anecdotal evidence doesn't disprove what the poster said. You just gave an example when it does not happen, but you are ignoring the fact that it does happen. You aren't really addressing what the poster is trying to say. I am sure even you can admit that jeffbase40 point has many examples. That is what should be discussed here, not the opposite.

 
Old 11-06-2014, 04:58 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 13,926,713 times
Reputation: 3222
In short there is no accountability. I have no issue with people having their personal views that differ than mine, but I do have a problem with people who are allowed to blatantly sidetrack conversations and do ad hominem attacks on others to not have a discussion of merit.
 
Old 11-06-2014, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,769 posts, read 13,299,066 times
Reputation: 9770
I mostly haunt the A&A and R&S forums and come here only if I have time; even then, I seldom post here because in all honesty many of the topics here are banal in the extreme to me, and hold no interest; they would have not held any interest for me even as a student at Bible Institute back in the day.

I am a former believer but I fail to see what Christianity has to fear from me or my views, or indeed what it has to fear from open discourse from all comers. If it has valid and superior arguments and logic, then what is the problem?

Although I no longer accord religion the undeserved respect and deference it has historically enjoyed, in this particular forum I don't argue my views on the existence or reality of god or the utility of Christianity; here, I'd assume most people take those as axiomatic and if they want to debate those matters they would go to A&A or R&S to do so. So I limit myself to logical arguments within those assumptions. I can't speak for other unbelievers who may post here, of course, but unless you directly ask about my (un)beliefs and the reasons for them, you needn't fear your minds will be thereby defiled.

Over on the A&A forum we frequently entertain conversations with theists, mostly conservative Christians. That bothers us not at all. What bothers us is proselytization, because it's impertinent and disrepectful. I try to abide by the same general principal here; I'm here to discuss your beliefs but not to undermine them. Alas, simply disagreeing with any person's dogma can be enough to bring a charge of creeping about with some sort of agenda to tempt people to sin. I can't help that some Christians are brittle to any failure to march in lockstep with their particular version of Holy Writ -- even with fellow Christians, much less the likes of me.
 
Old 11-06-2014, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Caverns measureless to man...
7,588 posts, read 6,582,895 times
Reputation: 17966
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Then why are Christians not allowed to discussion their beliefs in the atheist forum? Seems like a double standard to me.
You make a very good point. On the one hand, I think I understand exactly why the site admin set up the rule the way he or she did, and I think they made the right decision. I think this was probably a tough call for them in several ways, a difficult and probably uncomfortable balance to find, but that they did a very admirable job of navigating just the right course through some pretty rocky waters.

But at the same time, I understand why you - as a Christian - would feel that it's unfair. The rule does put you at something of an inherent disadvantage in some ways, and I can understand why you think the playing field isn't level. I don't agree that it isn't, but certainly understand why some of y'all do.

Most of you know that I'm not a christian. I'm a pantheist Buddhist, and while not a prolific poster, quite probably one of the most passionate critics of Christianity on the forum. Nevertheless, when I first started posting on this forum, I felt that there was something almost sacred about this sub-forum; that simply as a matter of propriety, this should be a venue where Christians could feel free to discuss their faith with one another - and with interested non-Christians - without having their fundamental beliefs attacked. I felt that was important because there are a lot of insightful, thoughtful, and thought-provoking Christians who probably have a lot of quality posts to share, but prefer not to do so in a venue where they feel they must constantly defend their beliefs. I didn't want to contribute to a dynamic that would discourage them from participating and sharing their narratives.

I posted here infrequently, and (if I accurately recall), very respectfully. I focused mostly on asking questions, and even when I disagreed or criticized, I tried to always be respectful and courteous in my approach. I felt as though I was a guest in this sub-forum, and kept my more passionate criticisms of Christianity in the main forum. The way I looked at it, you don't go to a church on Sunday to argue about religion, so why come to a Christian forum to argue about it?

I don't know when, how, or why that changed, but over the months I found myself becoming less respectful here, and more confrontational and caustic. I think that was wrong of me, and I apologize for it. I pledge that from here on out, I'll go back to my old posting style here on this sub-forum - keep my posts courteous and respectful, and focus more on asking questions than debating. I just think it's the right thing to do. If I want to argue, I'll keep that to the main forum. In my eyes, this should be a forum where Christians can feel comfortable to discuss their faith without constantly having to defend it.
 
Old 11-06-2014, 06:18 PM
 
1,606 posts, read 1,245,239 times
Reputation: 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Over on the A&A forum we frequently entertain conversations with theists, mostly conservative Christians. That bothers us not at all. What bothers us is proselytization, because it's impertinent and disrepectful..
...but it's not disrespectful for people like TroutDude and others to proselytize in this forum?

Proselytize: To attempt to convert (a person) from one belief, doctrine, cause, or faith to another.

The whole system here is created with a bias against Christianity and a preferential attitude toward the atheists and agnostics.
 
Old 11-06-2014, 06:31 PM
 
63,461 posts, read 39,726,177 times
Reputation: 7792
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Then why are Christians not allowed to discussion their beliefs in the atheist forum? Seems like a double standard to me.
Christians are allowed to express their views in the atheist forum . . . but they are NOT allowed to proselytize or try to convert anyone to Christianity. Too many Christians do not seem to understand the difference. Even here they think THEIR view of Christianity is the only true one and all other Christians' views are heresy or whatever. It is prideful and boasting anathema to God's purpose . . . NOT faith.
 
Old 11-06-2014, 06:39 PM
 
63,461 posts, read 39,726,177 times
Reputation: 7792
Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
I used to think that was the case, but, over the years it has become quite apparent that mocking and ridicule is the extent of the thought process of many of the regular mockers on the Christian forum. Perhaps, as another poster suggested, they are simply trying to validate their own empty disbelief.
It is more likely the believers who mock and accuse others of heresy are trying to validate their own empty belief. Christians are the "believers ON" and followers of Christ, period. They have many different sets of beliefs that they try to proclaim as the ONLY TRUE BELIEFS ABOUT Christ . . . which are ALL irrelevant. It is NOT what you believe ABOUT Christ that makes you a Christian. It is whether or not you "believe ON" Him and follow His instructions to His disciples to "love God and each other" daily and repent when you don't. Everything else is human vanity and hubris run wild!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Universalism and mockers have overtaken this forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
People like you and mockers have overtaken this forum.
Case in point . . . QED!

Last edited by MysticPhD; 11-06-2014 at 07:02 PM..
 
Old 11-06-2014, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,374 posts, read 20,025,917 times
Reputation: 14068
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ_Maxx View Post
...but it's not disrespectful for people like TroutDude and others to proselytize in this forum?

Proselytize: To attempt to convert (a person) from one belief, doctrine, cause, or faith to another.

The whole system here is created with a bias against Christianity and a preferential attitude toward the atheists and agnostics.
By all means, please point to any post - of my thousands - in which I attempted to convert anyone to Animism.

Just one. (1)

I'll wait.
 
Old 11-06-2014, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Texas
3,251 posts, read 2,532,481 times
Reputation: 3122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
I am new to this forum and already I have found a lot of very wise people. I am a person to ask about forums because I have been speaking on forums every day, all day since there was forums.

I would give this forum very high rates so far.

The moderators seem to be most excellent, and the forum has enough life to sustain itself in the varying different opinions and beliefs.

A forum aint no fun with a bunch of people who think alike trying to hold down a club, and a club is what you find when entering forums.

Half the people are trying to protect their territory and so you come in walking softly until people get to know you.




What is our job as believers JG?




We are all like little aunts that never stop day, hour after hour, day after day, and the goal shouldn't be just to commune with people who think alike, the goal should be to mix in with everyone, and religion has been GREATLY refined by all forums since there were forums.

In the beginning, you couldn't even find a single person who believed in Messianic Judaism, but just in the last couple decades, the feasts of Christ are being learned more and more, and accepted more and more.



This didn't happen from Christians just talking with Christians, everyone is a part of a refinement going on in the world, and the forums like this one has done such a great work in the mixing of different opinions.


Christians may cringe around some Atheists, but Atheists have the greatest job of all.


Atheists continuously refine what Christians believe for the good, not the bad.

An Atheist begins to engage the Christian saying,'' Look, Jesus didn't even live, and Christianity was invented by Pagan myths.''


It sets that Christian off to study, and to stand toe to toe with the Atheist and it benefits the Christian.



To study by yourself is hard, if one is going to study day and night like I always wont to do, he has to find a way to engage something interesting, something worth study so as to defend, and to learn as one defends.


I am so proud of the forums of the world, they are literally changing the world, and Atheists have greatly helped that cause.

Everyone plays a small part, who knows whether Atheists are angels sent to lead you into study?



I keep flirting with Thrill but he keeps ignoring me, I think he maybe an angel sent to test me.
I'm a rather apathetic atheist, but you have a good point. My arguments and debates with an electrician really helped me study for my journeyman exam 2 years ago.

An odd comparison I know, but hear me out. He had a lot of assumptions and false beliefs in what our electrical code said. He heard a lot of misinformation over the years that he held true and even practiced on the job. I argued with him all the time and would often go home to do homework to prove him wrong the following day. More often than not I was correct, but it was a learning experience for us both.
 
Old 11-06-2014, 07:36 PM
 
1,606 posts, read 1,245,239 times
Reputation: 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
By all means, please point to any post - of my thousands - in which I attempted to convert anyone to Animism.

Just one. (1)

I'll wait.
Please, by the very definition and by your own admission you hang out in this forum as a self-proclaimed hedge against beliefs you disagree with. By very defintion your posts are intended to dissuade people from beliefs that run contrary to your own. You never couch your statements in ambiguities or give respect to all beliefs. No, you belittle and deride every and all Bible-believing theists in this forum on a daily basis.

I don't care what you call the doctrine you believe, but don't claim that you don't proselytize, because you do.
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