Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Did Paul continue keeping the laws of Moses till he died?
Yes 3 25.00%
No 9 75.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-13-2014, 01:39 PM
 
8,669 posts, read 4,807,698 times
Reputation: 408

Advertisements

Romans is the book to read for understanding.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-13-2014, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
23,148 posts, read 10,449,759 times
Reputation: 2339
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Did you read my analogy of the Speed Limit law? If you did you would see how Paul would still be keeping the Letter but not abiding by the letter.

Again, the Letter is only a schoolmaster. But the LETTER will CONFLICT with the SPIRIT. What are you going to do then? Remember Jesus healed on the Sabbath day which was directly in conflict with the LETTER. Jesus response as to why it was ok to heal on the Sabbath day was an appeal to the Spirit of the Law.

There were always exceptions to the rule of law and Jesus explained it, he didn't break the law, it would not have been a sin for a Jew to have done the same before Jesus came.

You are pitting the understanding of the Jews concerning the law against the understanding Jesus had of the law, and the exception to certain laws.

He didn't give a new law, or the spirit of the law when he healed a blind man on the Sabbaths.

He only showed the exception of some laws that was nothing new.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2014, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 7,031,633 times
Reputation: 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
There were always exceptions to the rule of law and Jesus explained it, he didn't break the law, it would not have been a sin for a Jew to have done the same before Jesus came.

You are pitting the understanding of the Jews concerning the law against the understanding Jesus had of the law, and the exception to certain laws.

He didn't give a new law, or the spirit of the law when he healed a blind man on the Sabbaths.

He only showed the exception of some laws that was nothing new.
There is not doubt about it that I'm pitting the understanding of the Jews concerning the Law against the understanding of Jesus has of the law. But that is the point here. The Jews considered the Letter - the LAW. Which is why they put a god before God. They worshipped the image. The Letter is no different than pagan gods when someone puts it before the Spirit that established the letter.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2014, 08:58 AM
 
Location: US Wilderness
1,233 posts, read 1,126,469 times
Reputation: 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
There is not doubt about it that I'm pitting the understanding of the Jews concerning the Law against the understanding of Jesus has of the law. But that is the point here. The Jews considered the Letter - the LAW. Which is why they put a god before God. They worshipped the image. The Letter is no different than pagan gods when someone puts it before the Spirit that established the letter.
Jesus argued against the excessive, even obsessive, legalism of the Pharisees of the House of Shammai, the dominant sect of Pharisees at the time. Mark 7 is one example of Jesus criticizing them for the many 'man made' rules and regulations they piled on, stressing the need to follow those given by God. According to the time-line implied in the Gospels, Jesus would have grown up when the more 'Spirit of the Law' oriented House of Hillel was dominant, which was up to 10 CE.

Matthew tells us that Jesus was all for following the Law, the true Law given by God in the scriptures. But it had to be followed according to the spirit of the Law, not lip service to the letter. That is genuine righteousness, not the phony kind practiced by the "Pharisees and teachers of the law".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2014, 09:14 AM
 
17,966 posts, read 15,969,381 times
Reputation: 1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alt Thinker View Post
Jesus argued against the excessive, even obsessive, legalism of the Pharisees of the House of Shammai, the dominant sect of Pharisees at the time. Mark 7 is one example of Jesus criticizing them for the many 'man made' rules and regulations they piled on, stressing the need to follow those given by God. According to the time-line implied in the Gospels, Jesus would have grown up when the more 'Spirit of the Law' oriented House of Hillel was dominant, which was up to 10 CE.

Matthew tells us that Jesus was all for following the Law, the true Law given by God in the scriptures. But it had to be followed according to the spirit of the Law, not lip service to the letter. That is genuine righteousness, not the phony kind practiced by the "Pharisees and teachers of the law".
Have you read Galatians yet and Paul's answer against the law keepers trying to get the Galatians to do the law?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2014, 09:31 AM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,192,123 times
Reputation: 2017
No. Of course not. He wrote that Jesus was the end of the Law for those that believed in Jesus.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2014, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Red River Texas
23,148 posts, read 10,449,759 times
Reputation: 2339
This is the third article in the series of "Understanding Galatians". The first article explained from research verified in the dead sea scrolls that the phrase, "Works of the law" referred to MAN MADE interpretation of the ORAL LAW. The second article explained how the phrase, "The law was added ... " was referring to the incident of the golden calf and the establishment of the Levitical priesthood.
In this article, we will explain Paul's reference to Mount Sinai being an allegory of Hagar, Ishmael and the flesh and Isaac being an allegory of the heavenly Jerusalem.

UNDER THE LAW?
KJV Galatians 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

While it is important to read ALL of scripture in CONTEXT, it is especially important to read the book of Galatians in context. Many Christian leaders and members of the body of Messiah believe that Galatians CONTRADICTS what was written by Moses and what was said by the Messiah. They attempt to reconcile this APPARENT contradiction by the doctrine of "progressive revelation". Basically, "progressive revelation" teaches that one part of the Bible can supercede or do away with what was written or said in another part of the Bible.
The core of the problem with understanding the book of Galatians is the ASSUMPTION that it contradicts what is written by Moses and the teachings of the Messiah. When I was a teenager and attended a service at a Methodist church, the pastor made the statement that what Paul wrote contradicted what Messiah taught. He then made the statement that we should believe Paul over the Messiah because Paul had the "greater revelation" of the "mystery of the gospel". Was the Methodist Pastor correct in having this view?
Of course the basic problem with the viewpoint of this Methodist Pastor was that he was trying to understand the writings of Paul through the CHURCH DOCTRINE which he had already established in his mind rather than allowing the Word of YHVH to interpret itself.

OBEYING YHVH IS BONDAGE?
When I sent out the last teaching article on Galatians, I had a Pastor write to me and tell me that Paul was saying in Galatians that obeying the Torah brought us into bondage. This Pastor also wrote and told me that he believed and taught the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation for over 30 years.
What AMAZES me is that we have been so programmed in traditional Christianity to view the Bible (especially the book of Galatians) with an anti-Torah viewpoint that I wonder how we don't THINK what we actually SAY and SAY we BELIEVE.
Do we really believe that OBEYING the word of YHVH brings us into bondage?
The Torah is the Word of YHVH. Does the Bible say that if we OBEY the WORD of YHVH / Torah that we get into bondage? Doesn't the Bible say that when we SIN we get into bondage?
WHAT IS SIN?
KJV 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
SIN = DISOBEY TORAH
SIN = (DISOBEY TORAH) = BRINGS US INTO BONDAGE
The Bible actually teaches us that SIN brings us into BONDAGE. However, traditional Christian leaders tell us that if we OBEY the Word of YHVH / Torah (which is NOT sinning ... I John 3:4) that we get into bondage.
OBEYING YHVH BRINGS FREEDOM
What the Bible really teaches is that OBEYING YHVH (which means obeying His Word / Torah) brings us freedom and sets us free.
THE LAW OF LIBERTY
James referred to the Torah as liberty which comes from OBEYING the Torah.
KJV James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
THE TRUTH SETS US FREE
KJV John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
KJV John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
THE TORAH IS TRUTH
KJV Psalm 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
KJV Malachi 2:6 The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.

JACOB IN BONDAGE FOR DISOBEYING TORAH
We are told in the Bible that the house of Jacob got into bondage (prison house) for NOT obeying the Torah.
KJV Isaiah 42:22 But this is a people robbed and spoiled; they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in PRISON HOUSES: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore.
KJV Isaiah 42:24 Who gave JACOB for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? did not the LORD, he against whom we have sinned? for they would NOT WALK in his ways, neither were they obedient unto his LAW.
TRUST IN YHVH OR TRUST IN MAN MADE TRADITION?
KJV Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
KJV Jeremiah 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.
KJV Jeremiah 17:7 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.

UNDER THE LAW?
KJV Galatians 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
TEACHING FOR DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN = UNDER THE LAW
SIN = DISOBEYING TORAH
BONDAGE = DISOBEYING TORAH
LIBERTY = OBEYING THE WORD OF YHVH / TORAH

ABRAHAM HAD TWO SONS
KJV Galatians 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
The son of the bondmaid was Ishmael. The son of the freewoman was Isaac.
KJV Galatians 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Ishmael and Isaac represent the two natures in man. Ishmael represents the flesh / sin nature. Isaac represents the walking in the spirit of YHVH.

KJV Galatians 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
KJV Galatians 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
The chidlren of the earthly Jerusalem are children of the flesh / sin nature = Disobey Torah
Ishamel = flesh / sin nature = Bondage = Earthly Jerusalem = Mount Sinai = ALLEGORY
KJV Galatians 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
KJV Galatians 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Isaac = spirit of YHVH = Children of promise = walking in Torah = Heavenly Jerusalem
KJV Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Ishmael = Born after flesh = Sin nature = Disobey Torah = Bondage

Isaac = Born after the spirit = indwelling Holy Spirit = Obey Torah = Freedom
The sin nature (disobey Torah) persecutes those that are born after the Spirit (obey Torah). Those that want to disobey Torah speak to those that want to obey Torah and say: "Why do you want to follow Torah (not sin), don't you want to be free (disobey Torah)? Messiah set us free from obeying the law (obeying the word of YHVH)"
Good (obeying Torah) is called evil.
Evil (disobeying Torah) is called good (freedom)
KJV Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
LIGHT = OBEYING TORAH
DARKNESS = DISOBEYING TORAH
KJV Proverbs 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the LAW is LIGHT; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:
KJV Isaiah 8:20 To the LAW and to the testimony: if they speak NOT according to this word, it is because there is NO LIGHT in them.

CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN
KJV Galatians 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
How do you cast out the bondwoman (the flesh)? You crucify the flesh by walking in the spirit.
KJV Romans 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
KJV Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
KJV Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Ishmael = flesh / sin nature = Disobey Torah = lusts of the flesh
Isaac = walking in the spirit = Obey Torah = Righteousness of the Torah

CHILDREN OF THE FREEWOMAN
KJV Galatians 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
If we are children of the freewoman (Isaac), we are born after the spirit. Those who are born of the spirit obey Torah.

BORN AFTER SPIRIT = OBEY TORAH
KJV 1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

THE INDWEELING HOLY SPIRIT = GIVEN SO WE CAN OBEY TORAH IN SPIRIT
KJV Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
KJV Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
KJV Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
KJV Hebrews 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Ishmael = Flesh / sin nature = Mount Sinai = Torah written on heart of stone (disobey Torah)
Isaac = walking in the spirit = Mount Zion = Heavenly Jerusalem = Torah written upon a heart of flesh (obey's Torah)

UNDERSTANDING GALATIANS: THIS IS AN ALLEGORY ....
KJV Galatians 4:24 Which things are an allegory ...
Because they try to interpret the book of Galatians through their own established church doctrines (the traditions of men), traditional Christianity has misunderstood the ALLEGORY that Paul speaks of in Galatians 4.
Paul was actually explaining the difference between someone who puts their trust in man-made tradition (church doctrines / oral law) and who disobeys Torah verses someone who puts their trust in Yeshua the Messiah and obeys Torah.
Man-made tradition / oral law brings us into bondage.
Trusting in Yeshua as Messiah and obeying Torah brings us into liberty and freedom.
I pray that this teaching has been a rich blessing to your studies. May YHVH bless you always



Eddie Chumney
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2014, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Red River Texas
23,148 posts, read 10,449,759 times
Reputation: 2339
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
There is not doubt about it that I'm pitting the understanding of the Jews concerning the Law against the understanding of Jesus has of the law. But that is the point here. The Jews considered the Letter - the LAW. Which is why they put a god before God. They worshipped the image. The Letter is no different than pagan gods when someone puts it before the Spirit that established the letter.

The word of God is Pagan?

The word of God is Jesus.

Jesus is the word.

If the word of God is evil, then Jesus came to be that word, to walk in the word of his father, this is a bad thing?

Then there could be no new Testament.

If the word of God is unrighteous, then the God is Israel is unrighteous, because it is his word.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2014, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 7,031,633 times
Reputation: 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
This is the third article in the series of "Understanding Galatians". The first article explained from research verified in the dead sea scrolls that the phrase, "Works of the law" referred to MAN MADE interpretation of the ORAL LAW. The second article explained how the phrase, "The law was added ... " was referring to the incident of the golden calf and the establishment of the Levitical priesthood.
In this article, we will explain Paul's reference to Mount Sinai being an allegory of Hagar, Ishmael and the flesh and Isaac being an allegory of the heavenly Jerusalem.

UNDER THE LAW?
KJV Galatians 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

While it is important to read ALL of scripture in CONTEXT, it is especially important to read the book of Galatians in context. Many Christian leaders and members of the body of Messiah believe that Galatians CONTRADICTS what was written by Moses and what was said by the Messiah. They attempt to reconcile this APPARENT contradiction by the doctrine of "progressive revelation". Basically, "progressive revelation" teaches that one part of the Bible can supercede or do away with what was written or said in another part of the Bible.
The core of the problem with understanding the book of Galatians is the ASSUMPTION that it contradicts what is written by Moses and the teachings of the Messiah. When I was a teenager and attended a service at a Methodist church, the pastor made the statement that what Paul wrote contradicted what Messiah taught. He then made the statement that we should believe Paul over the Messiah because Paul had the "greater revelation" of the "mystery of the gospel". Was the Methodist Pastor correct in having this view?
Of course the basic problem with the viewpoint of this Methodist Pastor was that he was trying to understand the writings of Paul through the CHURCH DOCTRINE which he had already established in his mind rather than allowing the Word of YHVH to interpret itself.

OBEYING YHVH IS BONDAGE?
When I sent out the last teaching article on Galatians, I had a Pastor write to me and tell me that Paul was saying in Galatians that obeying the Torah brought us into bondage. This Pastor also wrote and told me that he believed and taught the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation for over 30 years.
What AMAZES me is that we have been so programmed in traditional Christianity to view the Bible (especially the book of Galatians) with an anti-Torah viewpoint that I wonder how we don't THINK what we actually SAY and SAY we BELIEVE.
Do we really believe that OBEYING the word of YHVH brings us into bondage?
The Torah is the Word of YHVH. Does the Bible say that if we OBEY the WORD of YHVH / Torah that we get into bondage? Doesn't the Bible say that when we SIN we get into bondage?
WHAT IS SIN?
KJV 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
SIN = DISOBEY TORAH
SIN = (DISOBEY TORAH) = BRINGS US INTO BONDAGE
The Bible actually teaches us that SIN brings us into BONDAGE. However, traditional Christian leaders tell us that if we OBEY the Word of YHVH / Torah (which is NOT sinning ... I John 3:4) that we get into bondage.
OBEYING YHVH BRINGS FREEDOM
What the Bible really teaches is that OBEYING YHVH (which means obeying His Word / Torah) brings us freedom and sets us free.
THE LAW OF LIBERTY
James referred to the Torah as liberty which comes from OBEYING the Torah.
KJV James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
THE TRUTH SETS US FREE
KJV John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
KJV John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
THE TORAH IS TRUTH
KJV Psalm 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
KJV Malachi 2:6 The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.

JACOB IN BONDAGE FOR DISOBEYING TORAH
We are told in the Bible that the house of Jacob got into bondage (prison house) for NOT obeying the Torah.
KJV Isaiah 42:22 But this is a people robbed and spoiled; they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in PRISON HOUSES: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore.
KJV Isaiah 42:24 Who gave JACOB for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? did not the LORD, he against whom we have sinned? for they would NOT WALK in his ways, neither were they obedient unto his LAW.
TRUST IN YHVH OR TRUST IN MAN MADE TRADITION?
KJV Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
KJV Jeremiah 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.
KJV Jeremiah 17:7 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.

UNDER THE LAW?
KJV Galatians 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
TEACHING FOR DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN = UNDER THE LAW
SIN = DISOBEYING TORAH
BONDAGE = DISOBEYING TORAH
LIBERTY = OBEYING THE WORD OF YHVH / TORAH

ABRAHAM HAD TWO SONS
KJV Galatians 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
The son of the bondmaid was Ishmael. The son of the freewoman was Isaac.
KJV Galatians 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Ishmael and Isaac represent the two natures in man. Ishmael represents the flesh / sin nature. Isaac represents the walking in the spirit of YHVH.

KJV Galatians 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
KJV Galatians 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
The chidlren of the earthly Jerusalem are children of the flesh / sin nature = Disobey Torah
Ishamel = flesh / sin nature = Bondage = Earthly Jerusalem = Mount Sinai = ALLEGORY
KJV Galatians 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
KJV Galatians 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Isaac = spirit of YHVH = Children of promise = walking in Torah = Heavenly Jerusalem
KJV Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Ishmael = Born after flesh = Sin nature = Disobey Torah = Bondage

Isaac = Born after the spirit = indwelling Holy Spirit = Obey Torah = Freedom
The sin nature (disobey Torah) persecutes those that are born after the Spirit (obey Torah). Those that want to disobey Torah speak to those that want to obey Torah and say: "Why do you want to follow Torah (not sin), don't you want to be free (disobey Torah)? Messiah set us free from obeying the law (obeying the word of YHVH)"
Good (obeying Torah) is called evil.
Evil (disobeying Torah) is called good (freedom)
KJV Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
LIGHT = OBEYING TORAH
DARKNESS = DISOBEYING TORAH
KJV Proverbs 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the LAW is LIGHT; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:
KJV Isaiah 8:20 To the LAW and to the testimony: if they speak NOT according to this word, it is because there is NO LIGHT in them.

CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN
KJV Galatians 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
How do you cast out the bondwoman (the flesh)? You crucify the flesh by walking in the spirit.
KJV Romans 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
KJV Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
KJV Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Ishmael = flesh / sin nature = Disobey Torah = lusts of the flesh
Isaac = walking in the spirit = Obey Torah = Righteousness of the Torah

CHILDREN OF THE FREEWOMAN
KJV Galatians 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
If we are children of the freewoman (Isaac), we are born after the spirit. Those who are born of the spirit obey Torah.

BORN AFTER SPIRIT = OBEY TORAH
KJV 1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

THE INDWEELING HOLY SPIRIT = GIVEN SO WE CAN OBEY TORAH IN SPIRIT
KJV Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
KJV Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
KJV Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
KJV Hebrews 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Ishmael = Flesh / sin nature = Mount Sinai = Torah written on heart of stone (disobey Torah)
Isaac = walking in the spirit = Mount Zion = Heavenly Jerusalem = Torah written upon a heart of flesh (obey's Torah)

UNDERSTANDING GALATIANS: THIS IS AN ALLEGORY ....
KJV Galatians 4:24 Which things are an allegory ...
Because they try to interpret the book of Galatians through their own established church doctrines (the traditions of men), traditional Christianity has misunderstood the ALLEGORY that Paul speaks of in Galatians 4.
Paul was actually explaining the difference between someone who puts their trust in man-made tradition (church doctrines / oral law) and who disobeys Torah verses someone who puts their trust in Yeshua the Messiah and obeys Torah.
Man-made tradition / oral law brings us into bondage.
Trusting in Yeshua as Messiah and obeying Torah brings us into liberty and freedom.
I pray that this teaching has been a rich blessing to your studies. May YHVH bless you always



Eddie Chumney
Torah worshipping has no place in Christianity. It is a schoolmaster - nothing more. No Christian has need of circumcising their flesh or observing a special day or days or abstaining from meats etc..

The Epistle of Barnabas (translation Roberts-Donaldson)

The Epistle of Barnabas goes far into explaining many of those Jewish customs and teachings and their place in the present day. This Epistle was part of the earliest Christian Manuscripts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2014, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 7,031,633 times
Reputation: 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
The word of God is Pagan?
Strawman. I never said that. And The Word of God says the letter was done away with.

The letter was never meant to be worshipped and existed to bring us to Christ.



Eph_2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;


Col_2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Heb 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
Heb 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

In Hebrews we read that those that kept the LETTER could not be perfect. And that the Letter is called CARNAL!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:45 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top